What do the churches need to repent of?

Thinking about how Christians need to fast and pray and repent for the sake of America I was trying to determine what the main sins of the churches are -- where we should start. There are plenty of problems with America at large of course, but how much of it should be laid at the door of the churches? In a sense all of them, I believe, simply because a strong Bible-based and Spirit-led church utterly dependent on God would have prevented them from happening. I'm assuming the failure started with the church back somewhere but I don't know how to locate that point. The Deism of our Founders perhaps? The Higher Criticism that infected so many in the middle of the 19th century? Well, the churches that succumbed to that are now utterly apostate, denying the full inspiration and authority of the Bible, allowing women pastors, treating homosexuality as a normal expression rather than a sin, even having homosexual pastors. And that's just the start of it. Whole church denominations are given over to some false doctrine or another and if this isn't the Great Apostasy predicted in scripture it's hard to imagine what that would look like. There is also an amazing trend of supposedly Protestant churches treating Romanism as a true church.

But I'd like to think more about the specific sins of the churches that are still good churches, that still adhere to Biblical inerrancy for instance, that teach the true gospel of salvation by faith alone through grace alone.

Even in those churches you may hear teaching that is very soft on divorce and remarriage for instance. Studies have determined that Christians are divorced in the same proportions as the rest of the society, even possibly greater proportions. We hear these statistics and they make us sad but does anybody stop to think that this has to be because the churches themselves aren't upholding Biblical teaching on divorce and remarriage? I've thought this for some time but hardly ever hear this preached against. I found one good discussion of the problem BY A ROMAN CATHOLIC (can't find the link right now, hope I can track it down). I had to agree with him. Too bad. The Catholics do get some things right biblically which is a terrible indictment of the Protestant and nonCatholic churches.

I know of churches that are more or less Bible believing and true to the gospel that nevertheless have divorced/remarried pastors and elders and deacons, which seems to me to be clearly in violation of scripture, specifically Jesus' own teaching on the subject. Seems to me if God should bless such a church with revival He'd have to begin by convicting them of this violation and the only way it could be properly dealt with would be pretty inconvenient to put it mildly. The Israelites who had married foreign women in the time of Ezra, and even had children by them, were put through the wrenching experience of separating from them because their marriages were a violation of God's word in that case too. Sometimes repentance and restitution are messy.

But if churches want to be in God's favor, if we want revival, something like this is going to have to happen. I'm going to have to find that link and get into the specifics of this, but it does seem to me that if Christians would simply pray and honestly seek God's will instead of "leaning to our own understanding" it would be revealed to them directly, they would be personally convicted of sin in these matters and wouldn't need to hear a lot of sermons on it. Of course if they've been hearing permissive sermons that support them in their sin then they are trained in resisting the Holy Spirit for starters, and may not even listen to a contrary view of the scripture anyway.

Another issue that continues to strike me as a violation in the churches is the abandonment of the requirement for women to cover our heads in the assembly. My study of this completely convinced me that the vast majority of the churches are in violation of scripture on this point, and this is also a matter that I think an honest and protracted seeking of God's will would resolve. Not to cover our heads is to violate God's creation ordinance of man as the image of God and woman as the glory of man. In the churches this means that the glory of man is allowed to compete with the glory of Christ. This is one practice that ought to be simple and straightforward that has been made unnecessarily complicated because people just don't want to have to do this.

It ought to be clear enough from the fact that on the basis of the same scripture that calls for a woman to cover her head in church a man is required to uncover his, and we enforce that part of the directive while ignoring the other. It's not about women having long hair either because there was never a time when women did NOT wear their hair long until very recently, so Paul would have had no reason to exhort them to wear it long.

Those two issues, divorce/remarriage and the head covering, are where it seems to me the churches need to start the process of repentance.

(Not that I think it's going to happen, of course, I'm afraid I'm pretty sure that America is going to be destroyed by God's judgments because the churches will not rally to our calling, but nevertheless I hold out a small hope that I'm wrong.)

A couple of end times messages

Most recent radio talk by Brannon Howse of Worldview Weekend. This is part 2 of some revelations about Newt Gingrich's far-from-conservative politics, and he goes on to talk about how all the current crop of unacceptable Republican candidates are part of God's judgment on the nation.

Most recent email from Jan Markell of Understanding the Times: A pastor's analysis of the deterioration of Christian culture as seen in comparing the recent Costa Concordia cruise ship disaster with the Titanic disaster. The Titanic sank in an era of Christian culture that taught even unbelievers to put the weak before the strong. But on the Costa Concordia we have behavior that even barbarians would have been ashamed of -- "every man for himself" with big strong men shoving aside women and children to save themselves.

"Survival of the fittest" in action. The Man of Indomitable Will, the Antichrist, who disdains all weakness, doth slouch to Bethlehem to be born very very soon.

Just sitting here waiting for God to wipe America off the map

Now I'm disappointed with Jonathan Cahn. On the one hand he presented his prophetic vision as simple fact, as in that speech at a Messianic Jewish conference that I keep posting here, but on the other hand the book he wrote about it is written as a novel. I haven't seen it yet but that's what people say about it. I expected it to provide more detail about the facts he had discovered and maybe it does, but a novel I do not need and treating this kind of information as fiction is a horrendous offense! It turns out that Cahn himself indulges in the hype tone I mention in the previous post though I'd been saying it wasn't his doing.

And yet I still have to regard the mere facts of the matter he presents as just as uncanny and meaningful as I first found them to be. Ground Zero really is where George Washington's inauguration was consecrated by prayer by the first members of the US Government. Whether America is to be regarded as consecrated to God in the sense ancient Israel was is questionable, but Cahn's point that some form of consecration took place seems undeniable, and MUST explain why God treats us the same as He did Israel, which is clearly what is happening with the Isaiah 9:10 connections. Cahn mentions both the plaque at Jamestown and the dedication of Washington's presidency at Ground Zero as two instances in which the nation was consecrated to God. It's hard to dismiss this as a meaningless coincidence.

Isaiah 9:10 certainly does refer to the felling of sycamore trees as God's judgment on Israel, and to the planting of cedar trees or conifers as Israel's defiance of God in response. How can we possibly overlook the uncanny symbolism of a single sycamore tree in the churchyard of that same historic church being destroyed by part of a falling WTC tower and replaced by -- a conifer? And there's also the replacement of the fallen bricks with the hewn stone echoing Isaiah 9:10 as well. That too is uncanny. In doing these things America has certainly had the same attitude as ancient Israel as recorded in Isaiah 9:10 -- we'll redo and rebuild what God destroyed, and we'll do it bigger and better and stronger. The sycamore itself is now memorialized in a bronze replica of its roots, which I find spooky in the extreme, like celebrating death, in this case the death of America, what else? Unwittingly of course. And it's right beside that historic church in which our first government was consecrated.

But most uncanny of all is the attitude of American leaders who exactly echoed the spirit of the leaders of ancient Israel in their denial that this was God's judgment and their refusal to repent but instead to rebuild in their own strength what God had destroyed. There is no way to deny that parallel, there's no way to deny that this follows the same lines as Isaiah 9:10. Of course it wasn't a President who quoted Isaiah 9:10, it was merely the Majority Leader of the Senate, Tom Daschle at the time, but that IS a leader of the nation and it has to mean something. The fact that John Edwards quoted the same verse a few years later in a prayer breakfast on the anniversary of 9/11 isn't quite so telling, because he wasn't in a high position of leadership, but it certainly does at least reflect the attitude of defiance America as a whole was taking at the time, strangely unaware of its actual meaning, thinking to be speaking words of comfort about 9/11 instead. And he made that speech at a typical government prayer breakfast, an official appealing to God for the nation. Again, all this was unwitting, they all think they are comforting the nation with promises to rebuild.

But here is how that passage continues:

11 Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together; 12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand [is] stretched out still. Isa 9:13 For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts. 14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

Sure sounds to me like God is promising more judgment to come BECAUSE Israel didn't repent but vowed to plant better trees and build better buildings.

Some of us didn't need all these signs and symbols to know that 9/11 was God's judgment on America, or warning judgment. All you need to know is how God dealt with nations in the OT and specifically how He dealt with Israel. He TOLD them -- Deuteronomy 28 for instance -- how he would deal with them if they obeyed and if they disobeyed. Disobedience calls for the triumph of enemies and the destruction of the economy for instance -- surely this is a principle that applies to all nations, not just God's own people, although in lesser degree simply because "to whom much is given much is required." Those principles are all we should need to know to understand 9/11 as God's judgment -- a warning judgement of more to come, I should say, simply because it was such a limited event compared to what it could have been. A warning judgment to wake us up and lead us to repentance. But Americans refused to see that in it, and the biggest shame of all is that the pastors of churches all over the land refused to see it that way. Thousands of churches could have been fasting and praying for repentance in earnest except for that.

So a few years later along comes Jonathan Cahn who discovers these uncanny correspondences between a little-known verse in the Old Testament and the events and attitudes in America surrounding 9/11. This has to be God's mercy, giving us some indisputable signs to prove that He's bringing judgment against America even in the teeth of the nation's determined denial and defiance. NOW, I think to myself, how can anyone avoid the fact that America is under God's judgment? This revelation, I think to myself, ought to speed through the churches and send us all to our knees. But no, it hardly gets off the ground.

And now it turns out to be presented in some questionable forms with a questionable tone itself, and we still have no problem avoiding the truth of the situation. How much this hype has to do with our avoiding it I don't know, I just know the whole thing is incredibly sad, we are under God's judgment and we have plenty of reason to know we are under God's judgment and we are doing nothing about it.

I wish I hadn't ordered the book because I can't afford much these days and I don't need a novel. I'd like to have all the material he offers in support of this prophetic vision but the money is too much for me. And now I'm really angry that he has been treating this material this way, hyping it up as a novel, using all the spooky hokey hypy words that should not be used in reference to Biblical revelation.

Even with all that, as I said, I still believe this message is authentic at its core. The parallels with Isaiah 9:10 can't be denied. This is a strange case of amazing TRUTH being manhandled by the techniques that belong to lies. I don't know how to put all this together.

I've been disappointed in Christians' response to this. And I still am, but this problem with how the main protagonist has been treating the material does give some excuse to the churches for ignoring it. SOME excuse, though, that's all. I still think the facts themselves ought to have overridden such a reaction to the hype, if that is part of the reason it's been ignored.

So here we are, looking at a major warning of God's judgment in the events of 9/11, given to us in unmistakable signs, being ignored by God's people instead of taken to heart as it should be, as we are the only hope for the nation to escape future escalation of God's judgment, which is inevitable if we do nothing, and we ARE doing nothing. Going-on-eleven years after the event we are doing nothing despite this revelation that ought to have set a fire under us long ago.

Our state of paralysis is itself a form of judgment.

Will the next hit, whatever it is, wake us up? Probably not. We've had a few hits since 9/11 in fact, not just the Wall Street hits but some pretty heavy weather hits across the nation as well. That's certainly what Katrina was. Anybody moved to repentance? Naa, just the usual complaints against anyone who suggests it was God's judgment.

The hype around the Cahn message plus its general lack of circulation among Christians is the real mystery

I don't get it. The Jonathan Cahn study of 9/11 is convincing in and of itself, so two things are a puzzle: 1) why isn't it getting the attention and seriousness it deserves, and 2) why does there have to be all the hype around it?

On the hype question, All the stuff about "secret" knowledge for instance -- what's secret about God's word? "An ancient mystery" blah blah de blah. The Bible is full of mystery but not the kind of mystery that calls for that spooky tone of voice. It's there to be discovered by an obedient and persistent believer. And I thought that's what Cahn did in this case -- God led him to the many signs that connect 9/11 with Isaiah 9:10 -- they are there for anyone to appreciate, there's no need for the tone of breathy excitement and hoked-up drama that some treat it with.

The link above is to a publication by a Sid Roth who has a program with that tone titled It's Supernatural, on which he interviewed Cahn, and I could have put that up here too but the tone put me off so I didn't. But he's not the only one who treats this revelation that way. Even the cover to Cahn's book has that tone to it. Even the single word "Harbinger" as its title carries some of that feeling. I've simply tried to ignore that because the evidence in itself is good enough, but I have to admit that the tone of the cover detracts from the message.

That tone usually goes with something that's fake or at least exaggerated beyind its intrinsic value, but that hasn't seemed to be the case with this Bible-based information about 9/11. It's straightforward Biblical truth unless I'm missing it completely.

As for the lack of attention: Apparently this prophecy is better known among SOME Christians than I knew. At the same time it's nowhere near as well known as it should be. Googling it now I find many more references to it than I knew existed when I started posting on it, but since it strikes me as so amazingly authentic it's hard to believe it isn't well known by ALL Christians by now. How come it's only getting circulated in limited segments of the Church? I find now that Charisma magazine had it on their cover a few years ago. Is it because it's associated with that branch of the church that it's being ignored by the more mainstream churches? Does the hype tone have something to do with its being so generally ignored?

That is really unfortunate if so. It SHOULD be known to all of us and in fact be taken seriously as THE concern of the day until we have a great movement of repentance and revival based on it, which is the only right response the churches could have.

I have not found even one discussion of this prophecy that questions its authenticity so that is not the reason it is being ignored. It MUST be because it's associated with the charismatic and messianic movements then, and perhaps also the tone of hype that is unfortunately laid on it?

If this isn't the reason, if there are objections to this message that I'm failing to appreciate, SOMEBODY PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

Meanwhile I'm still convinced of the authenticity and importance of this message and I'm going to put up Cahn's conference talk on it again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXei0Zb3dxM&feature=related

We don't need the hype and it detracts from the message. God's prophets didn't carry on in that tone about their revelations. It should be a straightforward reverent study of God's word. If I weren't already convinced by the evidence itself I wouldn't pursue something with that atmosphere surrounding it. At least Cahn himself doesn't treat it that way in this talk I keep linking to, although he can get pulled into it by those interviewing him to some extent.

Here's another one with that hype tone and this one tells us that America is going to end on September 30, 2015 because of something contained in this prophecy. If people believe such things why don't they have a tone of mourning and seriousness and concern to see if anything can be done to prevent such an outcome? So they think we'll just sit here with breathless excitement passing the popcorn waiting for America to go up in smoke so we can say "Wow that was amazing!" and walk out of the theater or what?

WHY ISN'T ANYBODY RECOGNIZING THAT ISAIAH 9:10 DESCRIBES A WARNING TO WHICH ANCIENT ISRAEL COULD HAVE RESPONDED WITH REPENTANCE, SO THAT IF AMERICA DID WE COULD BE SPARED JUST AS THEY COULD HAVE BEEN?

And here's another discussion of the same prophecy, and this one includes video of both Daschle and Edwards, so that's useful -- but they have to hoke it up by putting dramatic music over their speeches. BLECH.

Again, it's as if the important IMPLICATIONS of this prophecy for America are just going ignored while the uncanniness itself is being treated as something that provokes awe and wonder for their own sake.

If this message is being suppressed for such reasons, those who add the hype and those who fail to appreciate its authenticity in spite of the hype are both seriously at fault. As is anyone who judges it not on its own merits but on its association with the charismatic or messianic contexts. That's called "judging a book by its cover."

The idolatry of human feelings must be repented of, in the heaven stories and in 9/11 if we want God's blessings

Another thing I think I have to say today is that I've been realizing I haven't gone far enough on the "heaven" stories or the attack of 9/11. I've been waffling on the majority reaction of people that puts all the emphasis on the suffering people, on the boys who had the heaven experiences because they almost died so we must first of all soothe the feelings of those involved, think of it as God's mercy that they have been spared and so on, and on the victims of 9/11 RATHER THAN GOD'S CLAIMS ON US.

Yes, I know I'm committing one of the biggest sins in the eyes of the world by saying this, but I'd rather that than commit the worse sin of giving in to mere human fleshly sentimentality while slighting the Lord. If God isn't greatest in all our thoughts, if He isn't the Beloved of our hearts, if we put ANYTHING above Him, we are committing adultery/idolatry against Him.

No, the victims of 9/11 should NOT be our first consideration, though I've allowed myself to say that they should because it's the popular attitude.

God's will should always be our first consideration and in the case of 9/11 what we SHOULD have done, even those who lost loved ones, is GET DOWN ON OUR KNEES AND ASK GOD TO FORGIVE US FOR THE SINS THAT DESERVED THAT JUDGMENT FROM HIM.

And with the heaven stories, there too the feelings of the parents, and the sufferings of their children that led to their having these visions, are put ahead of the fact that the heaven stories are bogus for all kinds of reasons. They are lies and they are deceiving God's people and that is far and away what should matter to us most. It's a great sin to put concern for a family's suffering above the effect of the lies they are promoting, that influence other people against the true God. And that is what we should say to the family as well. The heaven stories are lies from the devil that mislead people about the nature of God and Christ. The devil has no compunctions about exploiting children in the service of his lies, but we shouldn't allow him to play on our feelings when the more important thing is that his lies be exposed and denounced.

Such feelings are an idolatry, and part of the reason God is allowing us to be subjected to such deceptions as the heaven stories.

We can and should commiserate in private with those who suffered in 9/11 but a public event that influences people in the wrong direction is what needs to be the target of public concern. On 9/11 preachers all over the country got up and assured everybody that this was NOT God's judgment, and denounced those few who rightly called it that. They expressed in some cases a great deal of moral indignation in the service of concern for the victims and against the concerns of God Himself who was warning us of judgment on the entire nation of America. Those pastors need to repent before God and the nation. Christians should go to the memorial services for the victims, hurt with the hurting, be a strength for those who suffer, BUT THE MESSAGE OF 9/11 IS NOT ABOUT THE VICTIMS AS SUCH, it is that there will be many many MANY more victims and the loss of a once-great nation that God had blessed mightily for years, if God's judgment warning is ignored!

THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING AT GROUND ZERO IS SOME SORT OF PUBLIC ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF AMERICA'S DESERVING GOD'S JUDGMENT, REPENTANCE FOR OUR SINS AND PLEADING WITH HIM FOR MERCY.

Jesus said we must put nothing and nobody above Him, we must even hate our own family if they take His place in our hearts.

Human sentiment rises up against such a teaching, but human sentiment is the problem and we must not follow it.

Yes, I am repenting here of my own succumbing to the putting of human sentiment above God.

Even if the devil himself -- the Pope in this case -- preaches true morality, we cannot follow him

I've wanted to keep Jonathan Cahn's message about 9/11 uppermost on my blog, but along came this email today from an organization I thought I could trust, Traditional Values Coalition, that it turns out I can't trust, and it's important enough to comment on it here. Possibly I just hadn't looked into them far enough in the first place.

WE ARE EASILY DECEIVED IN THESE LAST DAYS. TAKE WARNING.

Here are excerpts from the message I got from them:

Today Pope Benedict XVI to the Bishops of the United States on their “ad limina” visit, expressed grave concern over the powerful new cultural currents “which are not only directly opposed to core moral teachings of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but increasingly hostile to Christianity as such.

The Pope pleaded with American bishops, and the broader American people, to uphold and be vocal about the unchanging moral truths which are the keys to real happiness and social prosperity.

Calling on the church universal, Pope Benedict said, “With her long tradition of respect for the right relationship between faith and reason, the Church has a critical role to play in countering cultural currents which, on the basis of an extreme individualism, seek to promote notions of freedom detached from moral truth.”

Today, as we reflect on the words of this great religious leader, we also remember the words of the prophet Isaiah, “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil; who put darkness for light and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” This is what we are seeing in America. A complete removal and in some case reversal of the moral truths we have known for millennia to promote and provide for the social good!

We, the Church, have a role to play in preventing the reversal of moral truths in America. ...

We join with Pope Benedict XVI in calling upon the American Church to rise up and realize the grave threats our moral witness is facing! ...

May we be that Church together.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!! THE ROMAN CHURCH IS NO PART OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AT ALL, and true Christians CANNOT join with them! How clever of the devil to have the Pope say things that we must agree with. But joining with the Pope even on valid and important Christian concerns is NOT an option.

The true Church must repent, that's for sure, must turn back from the moral relativism and moral equivalence we've fallen into under the influence of the world. This pastor (yes, he's a pastor) is quite right that the churches have been giving moral ground, even calling evil good and good evil just as the world does, but no way can we join with a Pope on this or any other issue. No no no no no. Romanism is a major wing of the Antichrist system that is expanding daily. Let's not feed this beast.

America's churches DO NEED TO REPENT, but Romanism IS NOT CHRISTANITY and this organization is making a HUGE mistake as unfortunately way too many true Christians have been doing over the last few years and decades. Billy Graham for instance. Evangelicals we thought we could trust but cannot.

BE NOT DECEIVED!

Here's what I wrote them:

Dear TVC:
I've appreciated your messages until now. I cannot join you in celebrating a Pope, who represents the antichrist system that the Reformers knew the papacy to be, of the institution that murdered so many true believers down the centuries, and that officially denies the truth of salvation by faith alone and keeps their office of the Inquisition alive as well. Sometimes he says things we agree with but so does the devil We should never join with him in any way, support him in any way, publicly applaud him in any way. If true Christians can't make the right moral statements apart from the Pope woe be to us. This matters more than ANYTHING else you do.

Sorry I can no longer support you.

I'm glad I received this message today, though, because as I've prayed and hoped for the churches to become aware of Jonathan Cahn's prophetic message I've also worried that the Catholic Church could run with something like this and confuse many, or the Mormon "church" or many others who falsely call themselves Christians.

There are lots of nice well-meaning people in all those organizations, sure, but they are deceived and blind, they carry the poison of antichrist, all of them, the devil presenting himself as an angel of light as scripture says.

They need to LEAVE those institutions. COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, SAYS THE LORD.

No no no no no, they deny the true way of salvation, they lead people to Hell, and they are well on their way to forming the final one-world religious system that will rule the world under the Antichrist when the time comes, which must be very very soon. If we join with them on ANY topic we happen to agree about we deny our Lord and lend support to the devil.

They are part of what the nation needs to repent OF.

WE HAVE BEEN MISSING GOD'S JUDGMENT WARNING OF 9/11 and all His judgments that have been hitting America since then too. It is judgment in itself that the churches are morally compromised as we are. It is judgment in itself that we have a Mormon as the Republican frontrunner for the Presidency, that we have a corrupted Supreme Court, that we have a miserable Leftist government in general. ALL THAT IS GOD'S JUDGMENT AGAINST AMERICA ALREADY, BECAUSE WE HAVE FALLEN AWAY FROM GOD FOR SO LONG. THE ONLY WAY WE COULD POSSIBLY GET STRAIGHTENED OUT IS IF THE TRUE CHURCHES AND ONLY THE TRUE CHURCHES -- AND HUGE NUMBERS OF THEM, JOIN IN SPIRIT AND REPENT FOR OUR SINS AND THE NATION'S SINS.

At Ground Zero God SAID He is judging America. Oh Church, wake up! Listen to Cahn's message and act accordingly. We're America's only hope.

I can only hope that there are many people out there who have heard Jonathan Cahn's message, Harbinger, and seen the importance of making it known to God's people as I also have. I have been discovering that there is a stiff spiritual battle going on over this message, just getting anyone to listen to it at all for starters and then even when they admit that it is as uncanny as I've said it is, getting them to grasp the implications of it. And I won't even mention what's going on with me personally to interfere with me. It's like there is a veil over it despite its being truly this amazingly uncanny just-about-flatly-undeniable in-your-face Message From God Himself.

I keep listening back to Cahn's message and it never fails to make me cry over what God has done and will do if we don't repent and seek His face. It makes me yearn fervently that God would use this prophecy to save the nation and I hope it would have that effect on many others as well.

There is no other hope at this point. This is SUCH a powerful uncanny direct speaking of God at Ground Zero you'd think all the patriots at least would rally to the message. Not yet anyway, this is truly a spiritual battle.

It may be there are objections people have to this, it's possible to find fault with anything if you have a mind to. Cahn is a Messianic Jew and there are reasons to object to that movement although I don't think Cahn represents any of the extreme versions of it, he sounds to me like a solid Bible-believing Jewish believer in Christ, but I know some can get all caught up in suspiciousness instead of simply listening for God's voice, Who speaks through all kinds of imperfect Christians, even through unbelievers at times, even through Balaam's ass (ok, donkey; no, leave it "ass"). Not that those examples apply here of course, Cahn is CLEARLY a true believer and deserves to be heard.

I know some object to the very idea that anyone would claim to receive a prophetic message for today, isn't the canon closed and all that and so on and so forth. Well, first of all LISTEN to this message because it's BASED on the Bible. God DOES speak to us through His word, He speaks to ALL of us through His word, the prophecy is ancient, it is merely being applied to today, it is not a new revelation, it's an old revelation applied to today, which is the way God has ALWAYS worked among Christians! And yes, we may have objections to dance as a part of worship for instance, which the Messianic churches get into quite a bit just as the charismatic movement does, and which Cahn mentions in his talk was a prophetic part of a Messianic conference, which he apparently accepts. There is also a "prophetic" or "anointed" violin playing in the background of this talk -- which can get a tad annoying at times but I've listened to it many times by now and it doesn't really interfere.

My answer to all of this is if God isn't objecting to it, if God is giving this man this amazing prophecy, humble yourself and listen to him! God is speaking through him! EVERY DENOMINATION HAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT BUT GOD PUTS UP WITH ALL WHO TRULY AND SINCERELY LOVE HIM AND SEEK HIM IRRESPECTIVE OF DENOMINATIONAL DIFFERENCES, AND HE IS WILLING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE WHO MAKES HIMSELF AVAILABLE FOR THAT PURPOSE!

And oh it makes me weary but I suppose there will be those who will object that George Washington was really a Deist and a Mason so his prayer for the nation is meaningless or worse. What can I say. God clearly heard his prayer and the prayer of that first governing body who prayed with him.

We all should ask God to show us what we need to repent of and obey Him.

Please, whoever is reading this, hear Cahn and pray that his message would go out to all God's people, and please pray for me too. I've been praying but I'm spiritually flabby too, I need prayer that God would strengthen me to fast and pray, that would help a lot. That's what we need, all of us, all the churches in America. Oh Lord, make it happen. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, seeing Your hand in this prophecy and begging You with deep humbling -- starting with personal repentance and confession of the nation's sins -- to save our land.

============

Maybe the biggest resistance to this message comes from those who are thinking of the individual victims of 9/11. All I can do is say again this is not about the victims, this is about the nation. The memorial to the victims that has been constructed at Ground Zero isn't a problem, but rebuilding a skyscraper on the site to replace the World Trade Center is, because that directly expresses the nation's defiance of God along the very lines of Isaiah 9:10. Oh please America, oh please churches, please please wake up. God is the same yesterday and today and forever, He does not change. He judged His people Israel, and He will judge America.

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Later: I looked at some of the sites that report on what has been going on at Ground Zero recently. Besides the memorial and the tower that's going up, I found that they've also planted a few hundred oaks. Funny thing, soon after seeing that I was reading Isaiah -- really feel I need to get a much better grasp of God's dealings with ancient Israel than I've had -- and my eye fell on this:

Isa 1:29-30 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.

Of course there may be no connection, but the oak was one of the idols of the heathen that Israel adopted, therefore one of the reasons for God's judgment against them, so I had to wonder if our planting oaks has some significance in this whole scenario of judgment. I've assumed that having a memorial to the victims isn't the same thing as rebuilding the site according to the Isaiah 9:10 message, but perhaps building anything at all there without consulting God is an offense, and oaks MAY have some significance, at least as another reminder of America's falling away: our "leaning to our own understanding" rather than putting everything we do before God to discover His will.