Quotes from some of the Founders Proving America was Bible-Born. Yeah, and Antichrist-born too.

Update 10/29:

I'm disgusted, horrified. We need to know about the genuine Christian foundations of this country but what we get is a mixture of Christian influences with who knows what else, paganism, Romanism, even Mohammed in the frieze above the Supreme Court building, and either naivete or lying deceit in palming it all off as Christian. It wasn't until Part 3 of Dave Miller's Silencing of God that I realized I can't trust anything he says, and I don't know if he's deceived himself or fudging the information for some reason.

So he points out the quote by Jefferson on Jefferson's Memorial which is all about God as Judge of nations, and says he wasn't a Deist by our standards today, which is true, and emphasizes that he believed in "the God of the Bible." Yeah, about the way Mohammed believed in the God of the Bible, by denying Christ. Jefferson was a Deist in the different meaning of that term in his time, and certainly no Christian, and why does Miller withhold that information from us? It would be enough, and important in itself, for us to recognize his Biblical allusions and especially his concept of a God who will judge the world, but to create the impression that the man was a Christian is criminal in my opinion.

I'm waiting with keen anticipation for what he's going to say about the Washington Monument, which is a pagan obelisk that completes the image of the Roman basilica that disgraces our Capitol. Let me guess, he'll mention the inscription at the top as if that transforms it into something Christian. Woopsie, 30:02 here it comes, I'm holding my breath. No, I think I'll resume breathing and wait a bit before I listen further. Time to get a sandwich anyway.

Yes as expected he does make much of the inscription at the top, Laus Deo, which a good Mason could accept. Lots of current events in newspapers were preserved in the cornerstone which he does note make no mention of God, but there is a Bible there too. But antichrists also like the Bible you know. And stones inside were donated to the project, many of which refer to God. Not Jesus Christ though. And I know maybe I'm nuts but there is a carved relief of two men shaking hands, showing unity, supposedly of "God and country" and it took me ages to see the men as all I could see was the image of an owl the two sides of which are formed by the two male figures. In fact I can't not see it without making a big effort. Of course as I say I'm probably nuts, but on the other hand any artist worth his salt knows how to create visual emphases to avoid such ambiguities. But then maybe this one just wasn't worth his salt.

Miller keeps saying it would require a lot of changing to eliminate the references to the God of the Bible in our national symbols. Really? Most of what I've seen is perfectly generic stuff that doesn't refer to Christ at all, and He's the target after all, not a generic "God" which is perfectly consistent with the Masonic order, Roman Catholicism or Islam. Give us a break you "Christian" apologists! What IS your game anyway?

Update 10/28:

Well, that's what I get for doing a post on a presentation of the Christian nature of America before I've watched it all to the end. I was happy to hear all the very Biblical sentiments in the speeches of so many American leaders, and that does seem to point to a powerfully Christian framework for the nation, but then he goes on to supposed evidences that simply are not evidences for Christianity.

This whole project turns out to be very similar to what David Barton does. I'm in Part 3 of Dave Miller's "Silencing of God" right after he's started talking about the supposed Christian meaning of some of our national symbols, which I know are not Christian but Masonic. He's now moved on to the architecture which Chris Pinto has shown definitively is full of nonChristian and antiChristian imagery. It's nice to see the Ten Commandments illustrated in the Supreme Court but Moses was far from the main inspiration for the artwork of the building. He comes to the frieze at the front of the building and still tries to palm it off as mainly Christian because Moses is depicted in the center. But he can't ignore Solon and Confucius, who have nothing to do with Christianity, and doesn't mention Mohammed at all!

WHY? Why the subterfuge? What is gained by pretending the imagery is Christian when so much of it is not? I could say I'm relieved to see that some of it is, but not when it's compromised by so much else that contradicts it. I'm writing this now before seeing it through to the end, just writing as I go. He's just shown the prayer on the White House mantel that goes back to John Adams without mentioning that John Adams denied the Deity of Christ so what good is his prayer? And since the prayer is for nothing but good and wise men to inhabit the house I think we can suggest that God didn't accept it. Really he's having to reach for the occasional Christian sign now and even those that seem most clearly Christian may not be.

17:36 moving to the capitol building. IS HE AWARE THAT IT IS MODELED ON ST. PETER'S BASILICA IN ROME? Have you ever wondered about that? And now he's going to point out some portraits inside put up about 1950, and guess what, A COUPLE OF POPES wearing the tiara designating world political power! Yet he's trying to show us how Christian and specifically Protestant the nation has been from the beginning? Obviously some other influences managed to sneak in by a back door and put their paw print on the nation when nobody was looking. As I think I recall from Chris Pinto, those two Popes are associated with the Inquisition yet. Also, thanks to Chris Pinto again, I'm aware that Christopher Columbus was a Romanist. Sure he sounds Christian at times, but his objectives were to honor Popes and Catholic monarchs.

Rather than celebrate these things perhaps we should raze the buildings to the ground and start over if we want a Christian nation. I just about can't go on watching. I guess I need to eventually but I'll have to put it off. This sort of deception is very disturbing.

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Update: Been listening along to the series of videos of Dave Miller talking about the Christian heritage of America, and being impressed at the concentration of very Christian views in the many documents he's collected, but he doesn't show the other side, which unfortunately eventually eats into his credibility. As with other apologists for the Christian nature of America, like David Barton for instance, he plays down the nonChristian and even anti-Christian beliefs of some of the main Founders, which I mention below. He doesn't discuss them, but allows the Biblical references in their writings to give the impression that they were Christians although they were not. He does mention that the Colonies restricted the rights of Roman Catholics but doesn't mention that Maryland had a Romanist origin and that their motto referring to God is one of the few that doesn't emphasize the Protestant view. Another thing that jumped out at me:   He does mention that the majority of the Colonies restricted the rights of Roman Catholics but doesn't mention that Maryland had a Romanist origin and that their motto referring to God is one of the few that doesn't emphasize the Protestant view.

Then in Part 3 he interprets the "all-seeing-eye" on a coin from the Revolutionary War period as God's eye, either unaware of the Masonic influences often imputed to that imagery or deciding to ignore them, I really don't know which. The Masonic influence, and in fact the Roman Catholic influence, are both in evidence in early America, in the Greco-Roman art in government buildings for instance, where there isn't a shred of Christian influence to be seen.  All this I learned from Chris Pinto's documentary series on America. 

Unfortunately the talk goes on treating Masonic imagery as Christian.   It doesn't help those of us who deplore the loss of the Christian foundation of America to ignore the anti-Christian elements that go back to the very beginning.  They represent a mindset that no doubt had a big role in undermining the nation in the first place and continues to contribute to destroying it.  It's probably too late, but I'm still pursuing the hope that the Church could yet turn the tide.  It isn't going to help that effort if we're ignorant of the nature of the enemy. 

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Original post:
The video embedded below is of Dave Miller of Apologetics Press, quoting directly from the Bible-saturated speeches of America's first leaders. I haven't heard him discuss the actual Christian lives of the men he's quoting but it does seem necessary at some point to acknowledge that some of these men were not Christians. (Patrick Henry was, however, a genuine Christian.)

 John Adams was a Unitarian, denied the Deity of Christ, Thomas Jefferson eliminated all the supernatural references from his own version of the Bible, Thomas Paine gave a very Bible-knowledgeable defense of revolutionary war but then wrote the Age of Reason which showed him not to be a Christian; George Washington kept up church-going with his wife until the pastor told him he was setting a bad example by not sharing in communion, at which point he decided not to attend church on communion Sunday any more. And another pastor of his called him a Deist. Ben Franklin heard George Whitefield preach but never accepted the message.

 Yet all of them extolled the God of the Bible as the protector of the nation, and the Bible as the source of the only morality for such a nation. Despite their deviations from orthodox belief, which deny the Deity of Christ and therefore make them antichrists, they promoted Biblical religion quite sincerely.

 Miller goes on quoting from Presidents and others beyond the founding generation. After hearing all this, to deny that this was once a Bible-soaked Christian nation should be impossible. If only we could get it back, because if we don't the nation is going to be destroyed.

Revival starts with seeking God and expecting answers

Another thought occurred to me in the hope of encouraging others to fast and pray for revival, starting of course with cleaning up the church and your own life. I'm aware that I'm a believer that the Lord does communicate with us in knowable ways, which is denied by some leaders of the Church, or seems to be. Of course everyone encourages prayer as a necessity, and believes in answered prayer, but the idea that we can get identifiable knowable answers doesn't seem to be acknowledged, and is often denied, as if it were in the same category as charismatic beliefs. But I'm convinced the charismatic "gifts of the Spirit" are false and that it's important to discourage that belief in any seeking of revival. Nevertheless, I've had too much experience of a kind of answered prayer that is very real to confine myself to intellectual understanding, which is often what seems to happen with those who preach against such communication.

The main thing I'm thinking of is that prayer for answer to specific questions usually gets those answers in my experience, and I think it very important that we be seeking for answers to questions related to these revival concerns. If my list of problems that hinder revival is true others should arrive at the same list by asking God to show them what hinders revival. If the lists are somewhat different that could mean human error at any point in the process, but if we're sincerely asking God to give us His wisdom the lists should look very similar. God shows us such things sometimes directly to our minds, sometimes through other means. But I think those who aren't expecting God ever to answer in such a knowable way probably don't recognize the answers when they come. They might even think I'm a heretic for believing this. I believe pastors can be guided by God to sermon subjects, and have a strong conviction that God led them, and that all of us can be guided to spiritual issues in our own lives that we need to deal with, and so on and so forth.

I don't really want to get deeply into this subject, just want to encourage anybody who wants to pray for revival to expect that God will answer prayer for knowledge and wisdom, will show us where we need to focus our prayers and other things we may need to do. So much of the work of the Church is intellectual, and it's good work, good sermons are preached, good analysis of problems in the Church and the nation and the world are arrived at, things in accord with God's word. But that doesn't guarantee that the message of the moment is the one God would want given, and messages that God gives come with a power to affect others that messages we put together from our own knowledge usually don't have.

But if we pray for that kind of light, and especially if we add whatever degree of fasting we can manage to that prayer, and especially if we extend the prayer beyond our usual time limits, I think we can be sure we'll get the light we ask for and we'll know it when we get it. And maybe if enough of us are doing this to whatever little extent we can we could be the beginning of a revival.

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Afterthought: The two issues that are my own personal hobbyhorse at my blogs, the Bible Versions controversy and women's head covering, are usually decided intellectually, by argument alone. No doubt with brief prayer, but not the kind of prayer that seeks God's understanding of the matter. If those who have decided them that way would take the time to fast and pray and ask God about them my guess is that you'd have to come to the conclusions I've come to.

Of course the issues must be argued intellectually, but not ONLY intellectually. Perhaps if we all fasted and prayed over everything we think we'd get closer to agreement with each other on doctrinal questions.

And, perhaps more important than any of the rest, though it's all tied together in the end, is that if enough genuine Christians, those saved by faith alone in Christ alone, fasted and prayed for God's wisdom in general, I suspect that the Lord would finger Roman Catholicism as still the main enemy of all Christendom, and what a boon it would be if more people came to realize this. So many good preachers in all kinds of churches, so many good discernment ministries, apologetics ministries, and most of them are blind to the Biggest Baddest Wolf that looms behind so much of the apostasies and heresies and destruction of the Church and the nation.

Hey, guess what! George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were "Homophobes" and "Haters"

And they weren't even Christians! Today's Gay Rights bullies are as un-American as you can get!

I mentioned Chris Pinto's radio program on this subject in the previous post, but he got much of his information from a website called Apologetics Press on the attitude of the Founders to homosexuality.

A pernicious plague of sexual insanity is creeping insidiously through American civilization. Far more deadly than the external threat of terrorism, or even the inevitable dilution of traditional American values caused by the infiltration of illegal immigrants and the influx of those who do not share the Christian worldview, this domino effect will ultimately end in the moral implosion of America. Indeed, America is being held captive by moral terrorists. The social engineers of “political correctness” have been working overtime for decades to restructure public morality.

The Founding Fathers of these United States would be incredulous, incensed, and outraged. They understood that acceptance of homosexuality would undermine and erode the moral foundations of civilization. Sodomy, the longtime historical term for same-sex relations, was a capital crime under British common law...

...In the greater scheme of human history, as civilizations have proceeded down the usual pathway of moral deterioration and eventual demise, the acceptance of same-sex relations has typically triggered the final stages of impending social implosion. America is being brought to the very brink of moral destruction.

But none of those other civilizations had the Biblical basis we have, which makes us more morally culpable, but also gives us the possibility of rescuing the nation that no other ever had. Oh if only we could wake up and have a drastic housecleaning, a drastic selfdenying repentance of everything we KNOW is against God's word, and fast and pray in prodigious numbers for as long as it takes to persuade God to come down and turn us back from destruction.

Gay Agenda a "high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" and needs to be pulled down by a revived Church.

Watching America being destroyed from within keeps driving me back to revival as the only possible solution.  Which amounts to saying that God is the only possible help but He isn't answering prayers for revival these days, as I've noted before.  Either He's determined on judgment as the only righteous response to our condition, or we aren't meeting His conditions for revival.

I keep hoping the latter because that at least gives us the opportunity to ponder what conditions we aren't meeting and whether we could meet them.  The ones I listed in an earlier post are probably not the full list.  In fact I can hardly believe I left out the gay agenda, because there are churches that have capitulated to that too.  The nation is suffering from every kind of Political Correctness and the Gay Agenda is the latest and most aggressive version of it, but I've been thinking of the nation's ills as those the Church is to tackle after we've cleaned up our own act.  How can we rally against violations of the First Amendment freedom of religion when we're full of offenses against God within our own ranks?  Problem is all the ills of the nation are to be found in the churches as well.    We even have "gay churches."   And all churches that call themselves by the name of Christ need to be addressed by the Church at large, meaning denounced in many cases.  I don't know if God would give just a certain collection of repentant cleaned-up churches a revival but if the point is to turn back the evils in the nation, God's judgment on the nation, I don't know how far that would go anyway.  To be effective it would have to be contagious and change minds all over the country.  Genuine revivals do have that effect, but could it happen on the scale we need it to happen?

The main symptom of God's judgment is the ineffectiveness of the churches.  The Wimp Factor as I called it a while back, our inability to act.  Not only the churches but conservatives in general, witness Congress.  It was nice, sort of, to see some pastors in Houston confronting their anti-Constitutional major, and also nice that pastors and others responded to Mike Huckabee's call to send her sermons and Bibles.  Seems to show there's still a pulse in the Church.  But it's a pretty weak pulse.  The call wasn't even for sermons against homosexuality, but that's what has to be confronted by God's word.  I wonder how many were on that topic?  My guess is not many.   Because of the Wimp Factor.

Yes, we're afraid of the gay rights people.  They're a nasty aggressive bunch.  We don't like being called "haters" and "bigots" and "homophobes" which is the tactic of Political Correctness invented by Cultural Marxism aimed at bringing down America.  And they can get nastier than that under certain circumstances.   That's why I liked the idea of pastors across the nation committing to preach specifically against homosexuality in one voice in response to the mayor's move against the Church, for strength in numbers.  It's easier to preach on a controversial subject if you know you are backed by thousands of others.    I still wish something like that had occurred.  If the sermons they sent her were against homosexuality that would maybe have a similar effect but since there is silence on that subject I assume most of them weren't, maybe all.

Chris Pinto had a very interesting radio show recently, The American Founders on Homosexuality, which makes it clear that the founding of this country included a view of homosexuality as sin, and abominable sin at that.  That's the view of the Bible and whatever individual founders may have believed about traditional Christianity, most of them were steeped in the Bible and accepted its moral judgments.   Some of the original colonies had the death penalty for homosexual behavior.  George Washington had to dishonorably discharge a soldier for attempted sodomy.  There was certainly no attitude of tolerance toward homosexuality in those days, but a couple of centuries later we're now bullied into accepting it as a normal sexual preference.

For years we've been subjected to Gay Pride parades which are in themselves a disgusting display that is hard to tolerate, but even the police are required to support the event.  We watch all this happen and don't do much, just let it all roll over us.  Well, what CAN we do?

It's like we're bound and gagged.  If one person speaks up a dozen opponents shout him down with all the PC epithets.  And now if a Christian business refuses to fill an order for something that supports the gay agenda, particularly gay marriage, they are getting sued and fined.  This is a horrendous violation of the First Amendment, a horrendous miscarriage of justice, but it's like we're so used to the reversal of good an evil, or so stunned by it, or so afraid of being targeted ourselves, we let this evil triumph.

But again I'm taken back to the need for revival.  The main reason we're paralyzed has to be that we're deep in sin ourselves, as I've started to outline.  I'm adding tolerance of the gay agenda to this list now, and certainly eliminating churches from any call to revival that endorse homosexuality as a normal lifestyle, ordaining them as preachers and so on.   Also churches that allow women pastors need to be eliminated.  Revival only comes to a biblically pure church, I'm sure of that.  It usually starts with moving people to repentance, but these are huge offenses against God that don't need some special touch of the Holy Spirit to make us aware of them. 

How many churches are free of all those offenses?  Well if you don't count my own concern about the Bible Versions and women not being required to cover our heads in church, there may be some that are free of such offenses.  Again, could we seek revival just for those churches? 

If we don't have revival, if we don't have a waking up of the churches, if we don't get some boldness against the incredible accumulation of sins in America and the west we're just lost, absolutely lost, there is no hope.