Monday December 18 UPDATE: It has been so encouraging, so hopeful, so comforting, to see the Arab voices I have been linking to in this and the previous post. Jusef, I think that is his name but I can't read so I don't know for sure, what a wonderful human being, first son of t one of the founders of Hamas who finally fled from it after years of its violence and following his own conscience to help Israel, and in one interview I saw be identified as a Christian. I hope that is true but it only came up in that one interview. Sophia who was interviewed through Prager U, and J TV's interview with Mr. Achmad. All names I could only partially digest. I would nlove ot see the film based on Son of Hamas but I can't see my way through the pages at Amazon. Even with the magnifier. Maybe my eyes will be better on some other day and I can find it. We'll see. but it gives me such hope that people can follow their own God given conscience even when they've been raised and heavily indoctrinated in a sataonic evil violent murderous culture.
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SSome of my URLs work and some don't, because I can't see to get the tholwhole thing copied in some cases. One I want to mention since it doesn't seem to be working is the talk he gave at the University of Michigan followed by a q and a so maybe it can be found with that information.
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At MichSome of Forgot to mention, that movie is titled The Greeen Prince, which was his code name as an Israeli spy.
nounces Group at UN, Exposes 'Savage' Indoctrination of Palestinian Kids (youtube.com)
w.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOEJumoABg
UPDATE: Son of Hamas Co-Founder Denounces Group at UN, Exposes 'Savage' Indoctrination of Palestinian Kids (youtube.com)Here's an interview wih the son of a Ja,as ;eader"
on of Hamas Reveals Shocking Details About Hamas and the Israel-Palestine Conflict (youtube.com)
\\//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOEJumoABg
is URL seems to work to take you to that podcast with the Israeli man talking about the history of the Israel Palestine situation.
Added a fesw hours later: I've very glad to have been able to post the URL to that talk because he is very good on the subject of the history of Israel. He is, however, a liberal, as are both the Arabs I linked to in the previous post. Overall I like their liberalism and don't see any diference between their beliefs and my own. Certainly not on the subjects they are addresssing. But this liberal ... well, back up a big...
Thids video rolls over into another made by the same Israeli man and again I dn'tknow his name. I don't know if he's said it anf I missed it or it's merely written somewhere below the video in which case I simply can't see it to read it. Anyway, this is also a good video presentation of the historical situation so I was glad to see it turn up. BUT he says a few things from his listeral point of view that annoy me, characterizing conservatives as fascists for instance. Yikes that is REALLY annoying. That is crazy ande false. And as with most ordinary people he thinks the wars between the Protestants and Catholics were just religious wars of the usual sort that we don't need to bother to know more about, which provides another YHikes from me although in this case I can hardly blame him for an opiniohn that comes out of very vague politics and has no current life to it.
Then the video rolls over again this time to a video by Coleman Hughes, one of the current crop of black intellectuals, a very young guy who is probably not a conservative although I usually like a lot of his opinions. It opens with his challeneging his guest for evading a question, in which he says it is clear thatg it was the Palestinian side that startecd the war in njineteen forty seven. His guest, one of those reallyh really irritating ignorant liberals who have bought all the Palestinian propaganda, saying that the Jews started the war simply by being Zionists which is apparently an act of war to his mjuddled mind, by whicfh they dispolaced the native Palestinians from their homeland. Oh groan. Will we never get the facts straight. Probably not. There was never a Palestinian Arab people, EVER. The Arabs in the region had scome there to work within the last few decades, they are wnot native to the region but ame from other Arab countries. This is a malicious fiction that has turned them into native Palestinians.
I'm listening to this guy, name I failed to get, bewing interviewed by Colleman Hughes, and I'm rapidly developing an ulcer. As it were. An ulcer of themind anyway. Hi thinks the "Palestinians" are a real people who really did live on the liand before the Jews began settling it and then became a state, that they wree ousted from their homseland and that was the real beginning of the violence accoreding to him. As the Israeli in the previous post I linked said, you can identify the origina of the Arabs by their hnames. There is no such thing as a Palestinian name. Their names show their origina in other states such as Syria or Egypt or wherever they came from THEY ARE NOT PALESTINIANS> That is a fiction comjpletelyo invented out of whole cloth for the purpose of discrediting Israel. Period. STOP THE LIES.
Hughe also said something I think is wrong but I don't know for sure. He said that Israel deported the Arabs they regarded as a fifth columen when the war started in forty seven, but I'd always heard that it was the Arab nameions that warned them to leave, and that was the origina of the refugees. In any case they were certainly not native Palestinians being osusted by Israel.
This guy thinks it's racist to say that there is something about Muslime as such that makes it impossible for them to live in peace with other groups. Well golly gee, how about their religious texts thaty tell them to kill everybody who doesn't agree with them or worship their god? Golly gee the liberals are naive.
s usual it seems that secular minds simply can't process information about religion and the Muslim side is driven by their religion. they are not driven by all the po.l,itical interests the Left thingsks they should be driven by, that other groups are driven by. It is NOT about land or political rules AT ALL, it is ONLY about what their religion tells them to do. WBut this guy can't get that.
Sophia, the Arab Israeli in the previous post, thinks it is possible to be a peaceful Muslim. I'll take her word for it that there is such a thing but what does she do with the calls to murder the invidel in their own holy books? What does she do with that?
My religion is also the foundation of how I want to live my own life, buty my religion tells me to love my neighbor as myself, even to godo good to my enemies and to die to myself rather than seek to preserve myself and so on. I find all this very hard to obey but nevertheless it is what I am called to. There is not a shred of a call to any kind of violence inmy relgion. But their is in Islam. And in Roman Catholicism I might add, since they don't stick tot he Bible b ut traditions as well which often contradict the bible. The average Catholic tries to follow Jesus, or at least a lot of them do. But the hierarchy has a different agenda which is at present muted because they are not in power.
Islam too behaves according to whether or not it is in power and when they are not they seem pretty benighn, but at the moment the world is on their side and their true colors are flying.
2023.07 Expand Background Checks 2 (youtube.com)
I keep listening and this is just hopeless. Trhis supposed Palestinian is just promoting all the Palestinian propaganda and Coleman Hughes apparently has no way to object to the propagandistic version of history, accepts that the Palestinains were in fact ousted from their ho,meleand by the zionists. This is the fundamental problem in this discussion. This is hopeless and my stomach hurts listening to it.
The URL pasted just above the previous paragraph is in the wrong place because it belongs to a different video podcast by Hughts and for some reason I haven't been able to geet it to post beneath that paragraph.
That URL goes to an interview he did with Benny Morris about the history of the same area.
This interview does give a somewhat different angle on events in the area. For the first time I gather that the people who got called the Palestinians were the Arabs who were in fact living there while the Jewish state was getting started. According to both Morris and the Israeli of the previous post there were some seven hundred thousand of them at the end of the secdond world war, now grown to seven mill9ions. In the early part of the twentith century the Jewish population int e region was maybe ten percent of the whole according to Morris.
I have to ponder his remarks more but I do want to respond to Hughes saying that the origin of America was ugly with racism and I guess also attacks on the native population. Balderdash. That makes me angry. What racism? Are you talking about the Plymouth Colony? What are you talking about? Get some perspective.
I do have to admit that I'm getting a clearer picture of the situation from Hughes' discussions than I'd had, however. I'd thought tht "occupation" just meant being on the land at all which the Arabs regard as their own, but now I understand that it means what happened as a result of the six day war in which Iareal gained control over the West Bank, an n area I now have a clearer picture of as well than I'd had before. They are in fact militarily occupying that piece of land, and as the discussions have unfolded it's clear that giving it up would be very risky for Israel so even if they might want to do that they really can't.
In any case I'm seeing more problewms in this situation than I'd seen before, and now what I'd really like to see is a protracted sidiscussion between many people on both sides untkil I get a really clear picture of the whole thing.
Well, a few posts ago I said this situation was too complicated for me to dare commenting on it and I should have listened to myself. I'm stopping now after seeing way too many podcasts on this subject, though I know I'm going t o watch more.
