Monday, June 25, 2012

More Harbinger controversy: it's all about the false hermeneutics* of the critics

Brannon Howse apparently doesn't have any problems with Jimmy DeYoung's "hermeneutics" which insists that we are to apply the Old Testament ONLY to Israel to whom it was originally addressed.* This flies in the face of Christian understanding for 2000 years. Never trust in man, Brannon, the best of friends with the best reputation can be wrong. Do your own research on these things.

So Brannon has DeYoung on his program today as he frequently does, and the subject of the first half is the storm over The Harbinger.
Brannon’s guest is Dr. Jimmy DeYoung. Topic: Dr. DeYoung and Brannon begin this week’s program by discussing a recent radio program by a “discernment ministry” defending the book, The Harbinger. The program included, in a negative manner, a discussion of individuals that have rightfully been concerned with the book The Harbinger.
"Rightfully" only if you accept their erroneous "hermeneutic" that says we can't apply the Old Testament to anything in our own day, As DeYoung said on the program: "It comes down to hermeneutics. It comes down to whether this passage which was written directly to the nation of Israel can be applied to America." Yes, it does come down to that, and it's DeYoung's hermeneutic that is wrong, not Jonathan Cahn's.
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Which hermeneutic is apparently Dispensationalism. By the way, today's radio show by Chris Pinto addresses this topic.
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And they are "rightfully" concerned only if you accept their total misreading of Cahn's book. No, in fact the whole attack on The Harbinger has been done WRONGFULLY. What MIGHT be rightfully criticized about the book doesn't even get addressed, while instead they wrongfully attack it at its core as theologically false.
In addition, the host of this program wrote a WND.com article that Jonathan Cahn, the author of The Harbinger “…got stuck with unraveling a code given to him by God.” As Dr. DeYoung explained, this is a major issue. Today, God is NOT giving anyone code to unravel. God is not giving extra Biblical revelation today. If God is giving an individual a code then that would make that person a prophet and the office of prophet is closed because the cannon [sic] of Scripture is closed.
The person they are talking about, who wrote the article for World Net Daily, is Jan Markell of Understanding the Times, and unfortunately I don't agree with how she describes The Harbinger as a code -- there's no code involved, although possibly she didn't mean by that what she was taken to mean. I want to think about some parts of her article later in this post so I won't say more here, but what she said doesn't give license to DeYoung and Howse once again to muddy things. This is not a personal prophecy by Jonathan Cahn.
This is not a small issue or a side-bar issue or a non-essential issue. This issue is actually at the heart of defending the authority and supremacy of Scripture.
Amazing how he can have a heretical view of scripture himself, that denies that the Old Testament was written to individuals and nations of the future as well as to ancient Israel, and claim he is defending the authority and supremacy of scripture. Where did this false hermeneutic of Dr. DeYoung's come from? Must be fairly recent.
Brannon and Dr. DeYoung believe that some people seem to be about destroying people and not destroying arguments raised up against the Lord. However, respectfully disagreeing with the author of the book, The Harbinger, as men like Dr. DeYoung, T.A. McMahon of the Berean Call, and Pastor Gary Gilley have done is not being cantankerous nor are they being “modern-day Pharisees.”
This pretty much sums up what was said on today's program, but I've got to say you can't characterize Jimmy DeYoung's very first remarks on Worldview Weekend as anything BUT cantankerous as he was nearly beside himself with the false idea that The Harbinger teaches "replacement theology" and denounced it in very angry tones -- without having read it. And he's pretty much still accusing Cahn of replacement theology when he goes on insisting that what was said to Israel by Isaiah can't be applied to America. And you can't characterize T A McMahon's criticism as anything but cantankerous either.

They keep emphasizing "tone" as the problem, but it's not, the problem is the WORDS, the INTERPRETATION. You can be nice as all get out while calling someone a false prophet.

They HAVEN'T been "nice," Brannon, you have been nice, others have been nice, but overall there is nothing nice about any of the attack on Cahn. Getting it as wrong as they do, and making it a matter of theological error as they do, even aside from some of the namecalling that's been done, is not nice at all.

Here is Jan Markell's article at WND:. I wish I could agree with her more completely but my impression is that her way of looking at The Harbinger may only be increasing the mystification about it by putting Cahn in the role of prophet.
By Jan Markell

I need to apologize. I founded and direct an organization that could be called a Christian discernment ministry. We contend for the faith as we are instructed to do in the book of Jude. We’re busy. Doctrine is askew today. False teachers are plentiful. Wolves are slinking around the sheep and devouring them. We try to discern the times, and we even name the names of those who, in our perception, are in error...

So why am I apologizing? Some in the discernment crowd are having a field day over something that may be God’s final warning to America. It may even be a final warning to individuals to get right with God. It’s a wake-up call to the church. I am referring to Jonathan Cahn’s book “The Harbinger” and the related film produced by Joseph Farah, “The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment.”

If you haven’t read the book or viewed the DVD, Cahn takes nine warnings to ancient Israel and uses them as a signal to America. Israel was warned. America is being warned. Israel shook a fist at God, and America may follow suit – but some, like Cahn, are trying to stop the train wreck.
So far so good, except that as usual I always want to add that it's not right to attribute any of this to Cahn himself. The "harbingers" simply EXIST in reality, they simply came to Cahn's attention -- BROUGHT to his attention by God, I'm sure -- and he went on to arrange a way to present them to the public. Trying to stop the train wreck is the only thing a Christian can rightly do when confronted with such realities that MUST HAVE come from God.

Must have. The only way you could fault the message of The Harbinger would be by showing how the harbingers DID NOT come from God. I'd like to see someone try. Merely ASSERTING that Cahn invented it all is simply false.
What is it about a warning that stirs controversy? Jonathan Cahn is not marching up and down Main Street wearing a sandwich board that says, “Repent, America.” He has connected some very mysterious dots on a map that started on 9/11. Each dot is a harbinger. They make perfect sense. The Ark door is going to be slammed shut again. God wants none to perish. It says in the book of Daniel that some mysteries would be sealed up until the end and then they would be revealed. Could the “Harbinger” message be one of them? I think so.
Interesting way to look at it although I don't see that the message of the book extends beyond America so that it could reflect the sealed mysteries of Daniel. I don't even see all this as a "mystery," although it is certainly astonishing that God would bring such literal signs to America to tell us that we're under judgment just as ancient Israel was.
But to the hypercritical and some modern-day Pharisees, Cahn’s hermeneutics aren’t quite right. He hasn’t fully dotted every “I” and crossed every “T,” they claim.
But let's be clear here. There's only ONE complaint about his hermeneutics and that is that we aren't allowed to apply to America what God gave His prophets to speak to Israel. That's IT. And it's a false hermeneutic, false in relation to all the teachings of all the churches I've ever been in, and false to the last two millennia of theological understanding. If I'm wrong I'd like to know HOW, but so far all I've heard is this bald assertion that we aren't allowed to apply the OT to anything today.

And again: The "harbingers" were not invented by Cahn, they HAPPENED IN REALITY. Plunk plunk plunk, one after another they simply SHOWED UP IN REALITY starting with 9/11. These complaints about his hermeneutics are complaints about GOD's hermeneutics since God brought about all the harbingers.
Additionally, the message of “The Harbinger” is unique enough that it doesn’t fit into the way God usually does things. Imagine that. God outside of a box! To be honest, I’d prefer God in a box, too, but I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that He just doesn’t always work that way! He is creative.
True, when has there ever been such an appearance of literal elements of an Old Testament prophecy in a later nation? It's staggering to think about.

AGAIN, these literal material harbingers or signs are what the critics have to explain away. Fussing about Cahn's hermeneutics misses the point by light years.
John the Revelator had to deal with this. Imagine the poor guy stuck on an island trying to connect the dots of the vision he was given. It was a classic case of “Lord, choose somebody else!” But there was no Internet back then so that critics could jump on board and accuse John of bad hermeneutics. Lucky for him. They would have had a field day, because to this day they are having a field day over the book of Revelation! For centuries scholarly old men have laughed at the profound words in the last book of the Bible and brushed aside its warnings. Some have said through the ages that it is too complicated, too mysterious. We must leave it alone. We leave it alone at our own peril.
I don't see it Jan. Jonathan Cahn was not given anything to himself alone. What he observed is out there for anyone to verify. It all exists in reality, not merely in the mind/soul/spirit of a prophet. I think by making such a claim you are making it harder to answer the critics.
Jonathan Cahn, a Messianic Jew, is a 21st century John or Jeremiah but in the right sense! He is not some out-of-order “prophet.” He got stuck with unraveling a code given to him by God. Cahn himself calls it, “mind-blowing.”
It IS mind-blowing, it's amazing. But please let's not liken Cahn to the prophets. And there is no "code" here to "unravel." It's all very straightforward once you simply SEE it. It all exists in reality, and the message to be gleaned from it is unmistakable. There are no apocalyptic symbols or visions involved. The stark reality of the "harbingers" is in itself amazing and dramatic but there is nothing mysterious about them in themselves, nothing cryptic or hard to interpret.
Then Ishmael and Isaac meet as Joseph Farah, of Arab heritage, who enters the scene to produce one of the most brilliant films you will ever see, giving the visual effect to further the “Harbinger” message. Wait! This union just might be of God.
I guess I'm not quite ready to find anything especially symbolic in this union myself, although I admit it's nice.
So I apologize for those “discerning ministries” who have concluded that what just might be a somber final call for individuals and America is out of bounds. They call Cahn’s book and the companion DVD “inane,” “preposterous,” “fallacious,” “blasphemy,” a “lying prophecy,” and much more! One critic denigrates Cahn’s character with a derogatory reference to his Jewish chutzpah.
Wow, I really wish you had named names HERE, Jan. WHO has used these terms? (I don't think they all came from T A McMahon, did they?)
What I’m reading and hearing from these older scholarly wonks is that they don’t get it that this is a Jewish thing for such a time as this.
I'm OK with this idea. IF we are at the brink of the revelation of the Antichrist, and IF the pre-trib rapture people are right and the Church is about to leave this world, and IF the clock of the 70th week is about to start ticking down, and IF world events are about to push national Israel onstage for the Last Act of Planet Earth, then bringing a message of God's judgment through a Messianic Jewish Rabbi/Pastor could have all kinds of interesting implications.
I have one more issue: Not one of these men who are criticizing – and may I say even bashing – made the slightest effort to contact Cahn and dialogue with him. And in that they run in a discernment crowd, Matthew 18 just must be on their mind now and then! How quickly we forget. Shoot first – follow protocol second!

And that’s why what some discernment outfits do is blood sport. For that I apologize. Profusely. I am ashamed. I don’t want to be known more for what I attack than what I build up. This has taught me a lesson for which I am deeply appreciative. As a representative of the “discernment community,” I apologize to Cahn and Farah for what is flying around right now. How, when and why did repentance become controversial? It’s such a simple theme. It’s the theme of the Bible from the opening verse to the last verse.

Forgive us, guys. Some folks are entering the Ark because of your work. Many will be eternally thankful.
All true. I wish the critics would stop and think.

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*The false hermeneutics that to one degree or another apply the OT only to Israel, denying its application to anything today, individuals or nations or whatever, is called Dispensationalism.

16 comments:

gabriel1955 said...

Before I begin this post, let me state that I am a former member of Beth Israel. Jonathan Cahn was my pastor for several years. I do believe that all nations, not just America are currently under God's Judicial Wrath. However, I do have some reservations about Mr. Cahn's hermenuetics with respect to his book.

Jonathan Cahn claims that his book has recieved endorsements from some of the country's most eloquent theologians, bible scholars, professors etc. Experts in the field of hermenuetics. Really Cahn? Like whom? You haven't even provided one name to substantiate your claims. I on the other hand will provide 3 names of bible scholars/professors who are experts in the field of hermenuetics along with their literary works, who are able to prove that your hermenuetics is an ALLEGORICAL METHOD of interpreting scripture. It has it's roots in PHILO.

These authors are as follows:
1)A Basic Guide to Interpreting the Bible by Robert H. Stein
2)40 Questions About Interpreting the Bible by Robert L. Plummer
3)Things To Come by J. Dwight Pentecost

Mr. Cahn employs a hermenuetical method described by Robert H. Stein in chapter 6 of his book page 96 known as " A SENSUS PLENIOR". It's a latin term which means the FULLER MEANING OF THE TEXT. It is an ALLEGORICAL METHOD of interpreting scripture and it's origins go back to PAGAN GREEK MYTHOLOGY. It was later adopted by Philo a HELLENISTIC JEWISH COMMENTATOR 30BC-45AD.

ONE PROPHECY HELPS CONFIRM ANOTHER

2 PETER 1:20: KNOWING THIS FIRST, THAT NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.
TAKEN FROM THE COMPLETE JEWISH BIBLE BY DAVID H. STERN.

Dr. George Lamsa in his New Testament Commentary page 512 offers the following comments for this verse: "ONE PROPHECY HELPS TO EXPLAIN AND SUSTAIN ANOTHER. THAT IS TO SAY, THE PROPHET JEREMIAH, WHO LIVED MANY YEARS AFTER ISAIAH, WAS IN A POSITION TO CONFIRM AND EXPLAIN ISAIAH'S PROPHECIES BECAUSE SOME OF THE EVENTS PREDICTED WERE TAKING PLACE IN HIS DAY. AND WHAT JEREMIAH PREDICTED WAS CONFIRMED BY PROPHETS WHO FOLLOWED AFTER HIM. THUS, ALL PROPHECIES ARE BOUND TOGETHER. ONE HELPS TO EXPLAIN ANOTHER BECAUSE ALL ARE DERIVED FROM A DIVINE SOURCE".

A perfect example of this given in scripture that proves that the authors of the bible interpreted bible prophecies with other scriptures is found in LUKE 24:25-27! THIS LITERAL METHOD OF INTERPRETING BIBLE PROPHECIES WITH OTHER SCRIPTURES IS ABSENT FROM CAHN'S INTERPRETATION OF ISAIAH 9:10. And yet Jesus himself utilized this literal method as described above!

5 PRINCIPLES FOR GOOD HERMENUETICS

1)Seek to understand the author's meaning
2)All scripture must be taken in it's proper context
3)ALWAYS COMPARE SCRIPTURE WITH OTHER SCRIPTURE
4) Determine the literal references
of figures of speech that provide comparison, substitution, & amplification
5)RECOGNIZE THE NEAR AND FAR IMPLICATIONS OF PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES(VERY IMPORTANT).

The LITERAL METHOD of interpreting scripture as discussed above, offers the ONLY RELIABLE CHECK on the constant threat to place DOUBLE SENSE INTERPRETATION upon the scriptures. To the degree we have been inconsistent in the application to SOUND HERMENUETICAL PRINCIPLES, you will be in error in your conclusions and interpretations.
This is where Mr. Cahn made his mistakes in his book. And he refuses to admit it. This is known as EISEGESIS, meaning puting one's preconcieved ideas in, and thus CREATING SCRIPTURAL MYSTERIES out of our own IMAGINATION.

Faith aka Connie said...

Thanks for your comment, gabriel1955. I spent some time thinking about it and even considered making a separate post about it because it's so lengthy and appears to be rather theologically complex.

But as I considered it I realized that all you have done is spell out some principles of hermeneutics without giving even a single example of how The Harbinger violates any of them. You assert it does, you imply it does, but you give not one single example of how it does.

Cahn did not use an allegorical method of interpretation of Isaiah 9:10, his interpretation is completely straightforward and consistent with the many commentaries he consulted on it. It's not a complex verse. The various elements of it showed up in reality in America starting with 9/11, that's not an interpretation, that's a fact.

As I keep saying, the critics need to explain how those "harbingers" showed up in reality, those harbingers that so uncannily echo the elements of Isaiah 9:10. This isn't interpretation, this is fact.

gabriel1955 said...

I did provide some examples on how Canh erred in his hermeuetics.

1) He did not follow a literal interpretation of scripture, by failing to support his thesis of ISAIAH 9:10 with other prophetic scriptures
2)Isaiah 9:10 does not have ANY FAR IMPLICATIONS relating to America without this SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT to prove it
3)If all he used were BIBLE COMMENTARIES to support his thesis of Isaiah 9:10, that in and of itself is not a RELIABLE CHECK or DETERENCE against placing a DOUBLE SENSE INTERPRETATION against this passage of scripture.
I have several commentaries in my library, and NOT ALL COMMENTATORS express the same theological views.WHY?
Because commentaries ARE NOT THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD OR CANONIZED SCRIPTURE.
However, since this is a very complex subject, and right now I don't have the time to cover any further questions you may have, I suggest you purchase the 3 books I recommended on my earlier post. After you are done reading this material, hopefully you will see that it is not uncommon for many authors who write books on end time prophecy, to resort to a
SENSUS PLENIOR STYLE OF HERMENUETICS.

Faith aka Connie said...

gabriel1955 said...
I did provide some examples on how Canh erred in his hermeuetics.
1) He did not follow a literal interpretation of scripture, by failing to support his thesis of ISAIAH 9:10 with other prophetic scriptures


His "thesis" is that the elements of Is 9:10 showed up in reality in America. Cahn didn't come up with some thesis about America reflecting Isaiah 9:10, there is evidence galore in the many harbingers he recognized, the speeches, even for that matter in the fact that David Wilkerson preached on that verse for 9/11 to relate it to America.

If he failed to UNDERSTAND the verse properly THAT's what you have to demonstrate, not that he failed to follow some legalistic protocol. The point of such a protocol would be to guard against a wrong interpretation. The verse is so simple and straightforward it would be very hard to misinterpret it. Again, your job is to show that he did -- and demonstrate that by the "other prophetic scriptures" you say he didn't take into account.

2)Isaiah 9:10 does not have ANY FAR IMPLICATIONS relating to America without this SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT to prove it

This is silly. Have you read the book? The "far implications" are in the harbingers which are real things in the world that anyone can check out.

Besides, what you are saying is nonsense. We don't need to jump through hoops to recognize when an Old Testament verse applies to our own situation in our own time. ANYONE ought to be able to see that America had exactly the same attitude as Israel did in Isaiah 9:10.

3)If all he used were BIBLE COMMENTARIES to support his thesis of Isaiah 9:10, that in and of itself is not a RELIABLE CHECK or DETERENCE against placing a DOUBLE SENSE INTERPRETATION against this passage of scripture.

I think you've got your mind all tied up in knots about nothing.

I have several commentaries in my library, and NOT ALL COMMENTATORS express the same theological views.WHY?
Because commentaries ARE NOT THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD OR CANONIZED SCRIPTURE.


Gee, imagine that. Did you check them all on Isaiah 9:10?

However, since this is a very complex subject, and right now I don't have the time to cover any further questions you may have, I suggest you purchase the 3 books I recommended on my earlier post. After you are done reading this material, hopefully you will see that it is not uncommon for many authors who write books on end time prophecy, to resort to a
SENSUS PLENIOR STYLE OF HERMENUETICS.


If you want me to read three no doubt expensive books I suggest you send them to me.

Sorry, there is nothing complex about the hermeneutics involved in understanding the Harbinger. I suspect you haven't even read the book.

gabriel1955 said...

Well Connie: You do have every right to believe whatever you wish. It is your prerogative. But I have done more than read the book. Years before it went into print
my wife and I heard it preached directly from the pulpit by the author himself. As for your comments, they are purely subjective and strictly your own. You are unable to refute anything I have presented. Not even with one expert witness to substantiate your arguments. So that being said, I wholeheartedly disagree with your false view. It only reveals your ignorance ABOUT RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH and even perhaps an indication that you might be BIBLICALLY INEPT. I will limit myself to these comments for now.

Faith aka Connie said...

Well, time will tell who's biblically inept, but again, thanks for your comments on my humble blog.

gabriel1955 said...

I wish you a happy fourth of July...God Bless you.

Faith aka Connie said...

Just one last thing: As I keep saying there is one and only one thing about The Harbinger that the critics have to account for: the appearance of the harbingers that so uncannily reflect Isaiah 9:10. The hewn stone that was brought in to rebuild after the bricks had fallen, the uprooted sycamore tree and its replacement by a conifer of the same type as the cedar, the memorialization of the sycamore's roots without the slightest recognition that such an image is not a hopeful sign but if anything a harbinger of judgment on the nation, the speeches quoting Isaiah 9:10 by government leaders, plus other speeches expressing its spirit if not in so many words, and the dates Cahn has linked to the OT shemitah that are just as uncanny signs of God's judgment on the nation as the Isaiah 9:10 signs are. There is no hermeneutical complexity to Isaiah 9:10, it is very clear what it means and it is very clear that it describes the attitude of America in the wake of 9/11. Tell me how those harbingers got there if not by God's own hand.

gabriel1955 said...

The answere is very simple. Cahn's ALLEGORICAL HERMENUETICS DETERMINED that Isaiah 9:10-11 contains a HIDDEN SECOND PROPHECY directed not to Ancient Israel but to AMERICA. At this point the author MASSAGED SCRIPTURE WITH CURRENT EVENTS in an attempt to prove that God's Judgment on the United States has been HIDING IN THESE VERSES FROM THE DAY THEY WERE GIVEN BY ISAIAH but have now been UNLOCKED/DECODED(SEE HIS CLAIMS ON THE FRONT COVER OF HIS DOCUMENTARY) for the FIRST TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY by Cahn himself. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. REMEMBER THE EXAMPLE I GAVE ABOVE HOW PROPHETIC SCRIPTURE INTERPRETS AND CONFIRMS OTHER PROPHTIC SCRIPTURE? Jesus himself and all biblical AUTHORS used this literal method of hermenuetics. WHY? AS A DETERENCE AGAINT HERESIES! Even more importantly, once someone decides they can CHERRY PICK VERSES AT WILL, CHANGE THE INTENTED MEANING OF THESE TEXTS TO FIT HIS THEORIES by using RANDOM HERMENUETICAL METHODS, ANYTHING CAN BE PROVEN EVEN WITH MODERN DAY CURRENT EVENTS!

Another important point I want to add. When God speaks of giving a SIGN, it is clearly stated so in the text ie. Deut 6:22, Deut 26:8, Isaiah 7:14, Mathew 12:39 etc. etc.
The same thing applies when God speaks and declares MYSTERIES i.e.
Mark 4:11, 1 Cor 15:51, Colosians 1:26, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT REVELATION 17:5. NOWHERE IN ISAIAH 9:10 IS GOD DECLARING A SIGN OR A MYSTERY which contains FUTURE IMPLICATIONS FOR AMERICA. THIS IS NOTHING BUT A CONCOCTION BY JONATHAN CAHN! Only God has ABSOLUTE DIVINE AUTHORITY TO MAKE SUCH DECREES! Also be careful how far you perpetuate this book. Remember, any book that falls under the GENRE OF CHRISTIAN INSPIRATION IS NOT THE DIVINELY INSPIRED, INERRANT WORD OF GOD. They are the author's PERSONAL THESIS AND THEY ALL HAVE THEIR STRENGHTS AND WEAKNESSES! Believe what you wish, but I choose to stick with the ORIGINAL SCRIPT THE WORD OF GOD.

Faith aka Connie said...

You keep attributing to Jonathan Cahn things he not only didn't do but couldn't do. He did not create the harbingers or the idea of the harbingers, they simply appeared in reality.

As I said above, what you and the other critics need to do is ACCOUNT FOR THE APPEARANCE OF THE HARBINGERS.

I look forward to your explanation for their appearance in the real actual world.

gabriel1955 said...

Connie as I stated before: YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE PURELY SUBJECTIVE. YOU CAN'T EVEN BACK UP WITH SCRIPTURE OR EVEN PROVIDE AN EXPERT TESTIMONY TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR PERSONAL FALSE VIEWS. THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS QUOTE BACK TO ME WHAT I'VE WRITTEN. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I SURRENDER YOU OVER TO YOUR DELUSIONS. I REST MY CASE!

Faith aka Connie said...

I haven't offered an argument. You need to account for the appearance of the harbingers, nothing else matters.

gabriel1955 said...

Nowhere in Isaiah 9:10 has God declared A SIGN OR A MYSTERY which contains A REMOTE OR FUTURE IMPLICATION FOR AMERICA. AND YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY to prove those claims and to SUBSTANTIATE THOSE HARBINGERS from the sacred text itself. FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE AND THE BIBLICAL TEXT, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU. WHERE IS IT? SIMPLE ANSWERE, YOU AND CAHN HAVE NONE. THAT IS YOUR JOB. FIND IT IN THE SACRED TEXT ITSELF USING OTHER SCRIPTURES TO VALIDATE YOUR ARGUMENTS. AND BELIEVE YOU ME, YOU HAVE MADE MYRIADS OF THEM AND EACH TIME YOU HAVE COME BACK EMPTY HANDED WITH YOUR BASELESS OPINIONS. NOTHING MORE. WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

Faith aka Connie said...

Nowhere in Isaiah 9:10 has God declared A SIGN OR A MYSTERY which contains A REMOTE OR FUTURE IMPLICATION FOR AMERICA.

And nowhere in any of my posts and nowhere in The Harbinger has such a claim been made.

AND YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY to prove those claims and to SUBSTANTIATE THOSE HARBINGERS from the sacred text itself.

The text refers to destroyed bricks and sycamores and the intention to rebuild with hewn stone and replant with pine type trees, and the text demonstrates the defiant attitude of Israel against the destruction as having come from God's hand as judgment. Nothing else is claimed about the text by me or by Jonathan Cahn.

The harbingers that have shown up in America IN CONNECTION WITH 9/11 are destroyed buildings and a huge hewn stone that was brought in to be the cornerstone of a new building in their place; a destroyed sycamore tree and a pine type tree brought in to replace it. These uncanny things having occurred IN REALITY are what you have to account for as coming from any source other than God Himself. Plus the attitude of defiance of God's judgment as expressed in quotations of Isaiah 9:10 by American leaders also in connection with 9/11.

FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE AND THE BIBLICAL TEXT, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU. WHERE IS IT?

In the facts described above to which you and the other critics of The Harbinger are spectacularly blind.

SIMPLE ANSWERE, YOU AND CAHN HAVE NONE. THAT IS YOUR JOB. FIND IT IN THE SACRED TEXT ITSELF USING OTHER SCRIPTURES TO VALIDATE YOUR ARGUMENTS. AND BELIEVE YOU ME, YOU HAVE MADE MYRIADS OF THEM AND EACH TIME YOU HAVE COME BACK EMPTY HANDED WITH YOUR BASELESS OPINIONS. NOTHING MORE. WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

Dear Sir: Get a grip and think through what I have given you above.

This is probably the last time I allow a comment from you here. Make the most of it.

gabriel1955 said...

Goodness grief; what arrogance.

Faith aka Connie said...

Thank you and goodbye.