Violations of personal dignity in the name of Security

UPDATE, Nov. 21: Seems Tyner's refusal to tolerate the new security measures has sparked a general outcry from the public. Finally! About time!

Here's today's Yahoo article on the subject, TSA has met the enemy and they are us .

Cute title. However, the coverage is limited to objections to the full body scanner and pat-down Tyner complained about, although earlier objections are touched on. What isn't touched on at all, avoided like the plague they obviously consider it to be, is the biggest cause of public distress of all: Political Correctness -- the refusal to focus attention on those most likely to be terrorists while subjecting ALL citizens to invasion of privacy and worse. Charles Krauthammer got to the point in a recent column on the subject, Don't Touch My Junk.

THIS is the fundamental outrage. As long as they keep ignoring that basic problem they can't deal with security issues at all.

I'm sick to death of White Guilt which is what the fear of racial profiling is all about. It's time to take back America and restore some common sense.

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Nov. 17:

It's astonishing that they can justify X-ray machines that undress a person before the eyes of strangers, and pat-downs that subject innocent citizens to indignities formerly reserved for criminals, simply to board an airplane. Here's the website of John Tyner, whose objections to the scanner and then to a pat-down brought this to public notice in the last few days.

This outrageous mistreatment of ordinary citizens has been escalating ever since 9/11. Many actually accept it for the sake of security, as if the trade-off is justified, but this whole scenario comes from warped priorities. First they reject "racial profiling" in the name of a spurious equality although the odds of preventing crime are improved by recognizing the most likely suspects. Certain visible clues ought to determine who gets singled out for suspicion. This doesn't have to become a racist nightmare if authorities are taught good investigative sense and basic humanity.

Following from that restriction on common sense now everyone is subjected to the violations -- and possible health risks as well -- of these infernal machines, enforced by physical indignities if a person refuses to be subjected to the machine. What's to keep perverts from applying for this job by the way? Not much from what I've heard, and in fact they are already lining up for the job. SO much easier now, legal too, to spy on the girls (or boys) in the john AND even get a free feel if they protest. Is that such a far-fetched idea? I don't know, it seems to me like a possibility. Besides this possibility, apparently the new methods don't really protect us from anyone who really is a terrorist anyway.

If personal freedom and basic human dignity aren't your highest priority then all kinds of enormities against individuals in this formerly freedom-founded land start getting taken for granted.

So how SHOULD we deal with the security problem? Start with profiling the most likely suspects, whether that means racial profiling or not. Keep the investigative agencies busy at their job of recognizing who is a criminal and who isn't. Use the old metal detectors. Sure, some weapons may escape detection that way. Also, put armed security on every flight. Actually, it wouldn't hurt to let more responsible citizens carry guns in general. Crime goes down wherever it is known that ordinary citizens keep guns in their houses. Let them pass through the checkpoints based on proper permits. Some will fake it but the more ordinary citizens are given this responsibility and the more it is known that citizens may be carrying weapons the more security there will be.

My suggestions may not be the best but the point is there have to be better ways than demoralizing the entire nation by the kind of mistreatment of innocent citizens the new security methods inflict.

A rumination on fasting, health, the Fall, evolutionism, and the head covering

Listening to Scott Johnson again. I really do get a lot out of most of his talks, although there are others that don't engage me much if at all. When he gets into his health concerns, for instance -- he is a doctor of some sort (chiropractor), dealing with alternative medicine and nutrition mostly -- he usually loses me. I have friends who follow alternative health advice and in at least one case I think it's done her a lot of good, but she has serious health problems to motivate her, while there's just no way I could get myself to learn all that without a similar dire need -- plus a faith in it that I just don't have. And I can't afford the products that are necessary to doing it right either. I just have to trust the Lord to take care of me on what is not a terrible diet but not the best either. So I usually skip that part of Johnson's talks.

In his talk for October 24 he has a section on fasting in the fourth part which I really wanted to hear because I need a good kick in that direction. I used to fast once in a while and got a lot out of it, but in the last few years I can't seem to get it coordinated with prayer times, partly because my sleep time is all over the place, plus I get distracted because of my irregular work schedule, and I just seem to have less tolerance for going without food. Anyway, I want to get back to it, and his talk really is quite good on it.

The point of fasting is spiritual and that's his emphasis, but he also gets into the health factors involved in fasting, how it's good for this or that organ, for detoxifying the system, and how you should take this or that supplement for various reasons connected with it. So that part I more or less tune out (except to note that it does appear that fasting alone, apart from all the nutritional concerns, is beneficial in itself, and that can be a motivating factor), but the spiritual advice is quite good.

But are we really what we were originally meant to be?
I do want to comment on a point of view that is very common among Christians and maybe especially among those who get into alternative health methods. That is the idea that we are physically perfect, as God made us to be, so we must assume that all the organs that don't appear to have a clearly defined function really do have one, it's just that we don't know enough about them. Such as the appendix and the gall bladder. Those who think along such lines must insist that they are exactly as God intended, so therefore we really can't do without them.

However, the evidence is that we do pretty well without them, at least not in any observable sense any worse, and that they have a tendency to disease that makes us better off without them in many cases. In my own case I had my gall bladder out over thirty years ago after a bout of extreme sharp pain from a gallstone that turned out to be a ball of cholesterol about the size and shape of a small bird's egg, and I was told about the same time that my appendix had shriveled up on its own and couldn't pose a threat. Now I'm not going to argue with Scott Johnson over his claim that he has remedies for the condition that led to losing my gall bladder, he may very well have, and I might have been better off had I had access to them, but it's been many years and apart from the occasional bout of digestive disturbances which I was told to expect from reduced ability to digest fats I don't miss my gall bladder at all.

To say this is to commit almost a sort of blasphemy in the minds of some, but in reality it's consistent with Biblical revelation whereas the idea of our physical perfection is not.

Yes, we are "fearfully and wonderfully made" according to scripture and that's true no matter what, but our wonderful machinery is ALSO losing efficiency over time and that is equally biblical. That is, we live in a fallen world according to the Bible, a world in which EVERYTHING is running down over time and would eventually run out altogether except that the Lord will intervene before that. We live in a world in which not only is our environment hostile to us in ways it wasn't before the Fall, but in which our own bodies are deficient in ways they weren't before the Fall, and increasingly so with every passing generation as sin and death are cumulative. The Fall brought death into the world, death and disease of every kind. The continuation of sin accumulates disease.

The idea of evolution is a huge deception on this very point as it requires increase where in fact there is ongoing decrease. I've argued this as well as I'm able on the Fantasy of Evolution blog. Evolutionists simply insist it's not so, they insist that mutations are the mechanism that drives evolution ever onward and upward, but the evidence is that mutations are overall destructive in spite of the very rare case of something they can point to that appears to be a positive effect -- though in reality it turns out to be a negative that happens to have a positive side effect (such as sickle cell which protects against malaria). We do get new "species" but this is nothing more than the natural shuffling of genetic possibilities that creates breeds and varieties, and in the process of this shuffling genetic material is LOST (lost to the "evolving" part of the population that is, not to the total population), and MUST be lost for a new variety to emerge, whereas if evolution were true there would have to be an increase in genetic potential, and there simply isn't. If it weren't for death this shuffling would only lead to wonderful creative variations, but because of death eventually it leads to extinction. But again, I've argued this on the evolution blog so enough said here.

Jesus' death for us reversed all this but the reversal isn't going to become a full reality until He returns. His presence in the world through the Holy Spirit in His people does also mean that we are blessed with methods of healing that would otherwise not be available to us, even occasional miraculous healings, but the world as a whole is still running down. It is perfectly consistent with the Fall that some of our organs have lost their full functioning to the extent that we don't even miss them if they are taken out. That has to be because we are living at an inferior level of health overall of course, because those organs must originally have had functions. Therefore they must have lost them over the centuries for the vast majority of the human population. They must have originally contributed to the efficiency of our bodies in ways we can barely imagine now, for instance in ways that supported the amazing longevity of the first generations of humanity right after the Fall. Any remedies that either mainstream medicine or alternative medicine come up with can't correct our deteriorating condition, though they may improve function to some extent and be valuable for that reason -- remedies that help stave off the worst effects of the Fall. But the usual idea that we are the way God made us and it's only bad products in our environment that are the problem is just wrong.

Speaking of products in the environment, in one of Chuck Missler's talks I heard recently, he was saying something along the same lines I'm arguing here, and he claimed that grains of wheat found in ancient Egyptian pyramids turned out to be sproutable, and when the resultant wheat was studied it was found to have "amino acids we've never even heard of." I have no trouble believing that, as the understanding that everything on this planet is degenerating would of course also include everything we eat as well as our own bodies. (But I do wonder, if such a super wheat has been found to exist, why it isn't being widely cultivated -- he neglected to explain that).

The Woman's Head Covering
Scott Johnson also brought up another issue I have to comment on, because it's one of my pet topics -- the woman's head covering of 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. He was talking about prayer and mentioned that men should uncover their heads for prayer, referencing this same passage where that is also taught, but went on to say that while women ARE required to cover their heads, women's natural hair is that covering, so they don't have to do anything to be presentable for prayer.

I gather that some of Johnson's Christian theology derives from fundamental Baptist teaching, and that branch of the church is probably the main source of the idea that the head covering Paul was advocating is the woman's hair. It's sprinkled through so many other denominations by now, however, that it's hard to be sure of its origin. The Reformed branches of the church reject the head covering in a different way, by claiming Paul was only talking about dressing according to cultural standards of femininity, the head covering being merely the cultural standard of his time and place. So by both reasonings, patently false reasonings it seems to me, women are not required to cover our heads in church.

I have to say that people who conclude that the woman's head covering is her hair must have a big problem with reading -- or they just don't think about the passage at all and take somebody else's word for it. Certainly the passage is a bit difficult to understand, but to believe Paul would spend fifteen verses arguing in favor of a woman's needing to have long hair for proper prayer, in a culture in which long hair was already the norm and short hair considered to be a shameful condition -- which is clearly spelled out in the passage -- just makes one wonder if they have actually read the passage, or given it any real thought.

As in most of this letter to the Corinthians Paul was writing to resolve a CONTROVERSY in the church, something they were disputing about, and long hair was NOT A CONTROVERSY -- that's why he could use it as an example in verse 15 that he would expect them to recognize.

But covering the head -- with a length of cloth -- WAS CONTROVERSIAL, probably partly because there was a mix of cultures in the Corinthian church, some women -- Jewish women for sure -- always having their heads covered, and others -- Greeks and Romans and maybe even some northern Europeans, either not covering their heads or doing so but according to a different standard than Paul was advocating.

Culturally, covering or not covering was not about differentiating the sexes! It had various meanings, mostly concerning the idea of feminine modesty with the Jewish women and any Arab women who might have been present, but even men in Jewish culture covered their heads when shamed (see Haman in the Book of Esther for one example), and of course the Jewish priests wore a headdress, and Arab men always covered their heads. For cultures that did not consistently cover it did not have anything to do with defining femininity OR modesty. Both men and women covered their heads in the presence of their pagan deities in some cultures for instance, implying something more about humility than modesty as related to sex.

But ALL OF THE WOMEN IN ALL OF THE CULTURES HAD LONG HAIR!. The only time women did NOT have long hair was when in mourning, or when their hair was cut off as a form of punishment, as for adultery. It's plain ridiculous to think Paul needed to construct such a lengthy refined argument in order to tell women to do what they normally did anyway and not do what they already considered to be a humiliation or a deprivation!

Paul was teaching SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW, something apart from the inconsistent practices of culture, something specifically related to the revelation of the Savior Messiah -- that men should be UNCOVERED in His presence, but women covered.

And as with all scripture, no matter how little is said on this subject it's important because it's God's word, which means that getting it wrong is going to have negative consequences. If the reason women are to cover our heads is to allow the glory of Christ embodied in the head of the man to shine without competition from the glory of man, which is woman (verse 7), then women's mistaken display of their long hair as if it were the covering is in reality exactly what Paul is teaching against. And the angels are watching, he says in verse 10, so they are being offended as Christ's glory is being affronted. By mistake, yes, but that doesn't change the fact.

The Darkness Deepens

I read the news today, oh boy. That's about all of the Beatles song that fits the current situation, though. Headline about how Christian soldiers who oppose homosexuality on Biblical grounds are called "bigots" by an American general, and he even threw in "racist" for good measure though there wasn't anything in the story about any racist attitudes. Another headline about feminists calling Christians "sexist." Saw a video about the aggressive socialism at the leftist rally in Washington. "Tax the rich." Oh boy. What a great idea. Bring the nation crashing down to Third World status. I guess that's what they want and maybe they'll get it the way things are going with this administration. And much more news along these lines of course. It's just going on day by day in this direction, escalating really. There's still some opposition, perhaps enough to keep the destructive voices in check for a while.

I wonder. I'm still trying to convince myself one way or another on my End Times Monitor blog whether the Pre-tribulation Rapture is the right interpretation of scripture or not. MOST of scripture supports the idea, it seems to me, but there are still some knotty points I haven't resolved. Most who believe in it believe that when the Church is taken away there will be no more restraint on evil through our Holy Spirit inspired witness, and therefore evil will just take off and run rampant.

As with all difficult theological issues there's plenty of extraneous muddle about the Rapture to wade through as well. The fact that many on the pre-trib side spend time conjuring with the daily news in relation to their belief that the times are upon us, and their opponents waste time focusing on that, makes it hard to keep the focus on the scriptural questions. We are to keep watch of course so I guess I can't fault them too much even when they go off in wrong directions, but I believe the times ARE upon us anyway, without having to know if a particular event in the Middle East is a harbinger of the Antichrist. I think we aren't going to know until he appears and then we WILL know and will have no doubts. But MAYBE the Rapture will occur before he is revealed. That's one idea some find in the scripture and it fits scripture best anyway as we are there exhorted to look for HIS appearing, not the Antichrist's. (Except, well, there is that verse that says the Antichrist must appear before the Second Coming of Christ.)

Then the opponents of the pre-tribbers accuse them of reading into scripture their own self-centered desire to escape tribulation, but up until recently I've expected to go through that tribulation if I'm here during it so that certainly isn't my motive. I'm simply coming to see it in scripture. I do have to admit I'd LOVE to be raptured out of this mess soon because I'm SOOOOO tired, but that's not the explanation for my finding it in scripture and it just adds to the muddle when that is made so much of by opponents.

Anyway, the news is bad and is getting worse by the hour it seems.

But as all this bad news was piling up on me I discovered a tune going through my mind and when I focused on it I recognized it as the hymn Abide with Me, which is SO appropriate for facing hard times. Not a hymn I hear much, just came out of the blue as if in answer to the moment. Thank You Lord. As I read the lyrics I see it's more about facing death than just hard times but that theme is there too:

Listen to Abide With Me
Sung by Hayley Westenra at some kind of sporting event in England??!! Wow, what a Christian civilization we USED to be, and it still clings to us even after we've given it all up.

Anyway:

Lyrics: Henry F. Lyte, 1793-1847
Music: W.H. Monk, 1823-1889

Lyrics:
Abide with me; fast falls the eventide;
the darkness deepens; Lord, with me abide.
When other helpers fail and comforts flee,
Help of the helpless, O abide with me.

Swift to its close ebbs out life's little day;
earth's joys grow dim; its glories pass away;
change and decay in all around I see;
O thou who changest not, abide with me.

I need thy presence every passing hour.
What but thy grace can foil the tempter's power?
Who, like thyself, my guide and stay can be?
Through cloud and sunshine, Lord, abide with me.

I fear no foe, with thee at hand to bless;
ills have no weight, and tears not bitterness.
Where is death's sting? Where, grave, thy victory?
I triumph still, if thou abide with me.

Hold thou thy cross before my closing eyes;
shine through the gloom and point me to the skies.
Heaven's morning breaks, and earth's vain shadows flee;
in life, in death, O Lord, abide with me.

Christians sadly continue to be deceived about Glenn Beck

An article at the Christian magazine, WORLD naively accepting of Glenn Beck.

But it was obvious to me that Beck wasn’t into the extra money or fame. It was obvious to me that he was a new creation in Christ. I know he’s Mormon and all that. I also remember reading a book by Professor Harvey Conn decades ago that said that you have to be very careful when judging a person’s salvation—some people with lousy theology have their hearts right with God, and some people with impeccable theology are cold toward God.

Glenn Beck isn’t cold toward God. He is red hot. He is “a brand plucked from the fire” (Zechariah 3:2). He knows what pit he was in—and he knows exactly who took him out of it. If I were his station manager I would be biting my fingernails every day, because the man just doesn’t hold back about Jesus, and I can say without hesitation that I have not heard the essentials of the gospel more clearly and boldly in any church than on his program.

I have heard all the criticisms, and I can find sympathy for them—about the Mormonism, about the dangers of religious syncretism, etc. But regarding the Mormon thing, I think we should regard Beck as an Apollos and pray for a Priscilla and Aquila in his life, to steer him better (Acts 18). I just don’t see how anyone can listen to the man for a solid week and not be as blessed as I am by his courage, his utter lack of fear of man, and his sharp and personal testimony of Christ’s transforming power.

Oh this hurts, this hurts. WORLD is a Christian magazine, there ought to be more discernment here. Beck doesn't hold back on Jesus, but his Jesus is not the Christian Jesus. He "knows" who took him out of the pit and it was Jesus, but his Jesus is not the Christian Jesus.

Beck CAN preach the gospel so that it sounds Christian, he's amazing that way, although I've known another Mormon who can talk gospel almost as well and make you think they believe what any Christian believes. If you know anything about Mormonism, though, that puts you in the position of waiting bug-eyed for the other shoe to drop. Eventually it does and the very strange and twisted Mormon version of the gospel is revealed.

At his rally on August 28th he revealed some of those Mormon beliefs that show his version of the gospel is not the Christian version. He believes American Indians are Jews, because he believes the tall tale of the Book of Mormon about some Jews coming across the ocean to the Americas back in 600 BC -- or 3000 BC or whatever -- and becoming the progenitors of the native Americans, who were then encountered by the Pilgrims when they arrived however many centuries or millennia later.

Beck's God is not the one true God. It's painful to think so many Christians are apparently so easily deceived or willing to rationalize it away and stand with a heretic for the sake of politics.

That same issue has another comment on Beck, by Marvin Olasky, the magazine's founder, Beckoning Christians, which gives good reasons why Christians should not align with him, while oddly, it seems to me, not exactly warning Christians against it:

...Let's watch the Beck movement and pray that it does not become a cult of personality.

...Bottom line: Glenn Beck is not the problem. His entertaining lectures are a slap in the face to poisonous political correctness. He's not the antidote, either. Christians should take refuge in the Lord and not in a beckoning embrace. But this country is better off with Glenn Beck than without him.

The COUNTRY is better off with Glenn Beck than without him!!! Well, maybe, maybe not. This IS the thought that keeps Christians from pulling away from him, however. The guy does a great job with all the political issues we care about most. It's like having a tooth pulled out with a wrench to have to draw back from his cause. Finally someone comes along with the guts and the message we've been craving and he's a heretic and Christians CANNOT ALIGN WITH A HERETIC. Ouch. Owwwwwwwch.

But is making Beck into a little god the problem here? The "cult of personality" danger Olasky sees in this? I suppose it could become that, but that misses the primary point that Beck is doing everything in his power to make Mormonism look like Christianity and deceiving Christians who love his politics, and THAT's the danger right now.

Again, Beck's gospel is not the Christian gospel no matter how much he can make it sound like it, and maybe even believe it himself, at least to some extent. Again, if he stuck to politics ONLY we could join with him. But he doesn't. Clearly lately he's on a mission to religionize his message.

That's what makes him dangerous.

Mormonism would NOT be good for this country if it ever got a political foothold and if it did, Christians would rue the day because Mormons have an agenda of their own, which I touched on briefly a few posts back. I should do more research into this and post on it again soon, but my impression is that Mormonism in political power wouldn't be much more desirable than Islam in political power, and they DO seek that kind of political power.

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P.S. Here's a good discussion of the problem with the WORLD article by Justin Taylor at Gospel Coalition, Andrée Seu’s Tragic Mistake on the Gospel of Glenn Beck.

Did you know that "America's Divine Destiny" is a specifically Mormon concoction? (Beck's version anyway)

[NOTE, 9/4: I'm pursuing topics that apply to the end times right now and posting them on the blog End Times Monitor. Recognizing the spiritual implications of the Glenn Beck rally startled me into realizing that we are definitely in a HUGE spiritual battle right now, and through the ministry of Olive Tree Views on the subject of Beck and end times questions, I got taken back to thinking more about the end times, which I think Christians SHOULD be focusing on right now.]
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Even more disturbing from a Christian point of view than Glenn Beck's 8/28 rally is the event he put on the day before, 8/27, called "America's Divine Destiny" at the Kennedy Center. You have to pay to see a video of this event at Beck's site so I'm not going to get to see it, but the description he gives of it there is enough to tell all you need to know:

Glenn Beck’s Divine Destiny is an eye-opening evening at the historic Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C that will help heal your soul. Guided by uplifting music, nationally-known religious figures from all faiths will unite to deliver messages reminiscent to those given during the struggles of America’s earliest days. The event will leave you with a renewed determination to look past the partisan differences and petty problems that fill our airwaves and instead focus our shared values, principles and strong belief that faith can play an essential role in reuniting the country.

I didn't know that the idea that America has a Divine Destiny is a Mormon belief. I learned this from listening to the radio broadcast at Olive Tree Ministries I linked in the last post (and I'll link it here again too). The belief is that America is destined to be ruled by the Mormon church, and ruled under a form of socialism too.

This ought to shake up everyone, not just Christians, but even without knowing that, Christians ought to see something to be avoided in the description of the event given above. "Religious figures from all faiths" are expected to inspire one to "focus on our shared values, principles and strong belief that faith can play an essential role in reuniting the country."

Christians with a patriotic love of America are of course attracted to the basic goal here and may at first fall for the rhetoric, but it ought to soon become clear that this is a cruel deceit, a bait-and-switch to lure the unwary into a false religion.

Then in advertising this event after the fact Beck says that those who attended "felt the spirit" there even more than at the rally next day.

WHAT spirit that might have been has to be a question, since the Holy Spirit only glorifies Jesus Christ as presented in the Bible, who was begotten of the Holy Spirit Himself, not the fake Jesus Christ of Mormonism they believe was sexually begotten by a fleshly human "Heavenly Father."

There must be a great number of deceived people who think they are Christian -- or perhaps some of them actually are Christians, since scripture does tell us that "even the elect may be deceived" -- for a time at least. But only for a time. If they soberly face the fact that "many faiths" oppose the one true God, and learn the truth about the Mormon religion, then they ought to be able to see that the spiritual claims for an event such as this are nothing but deception to be shunned like the plague.

There is something just deeply deeply sad about all this, how such a hopeful good thing that fulfills so much of what conservatives desire to see in this country turns out to be really such a dangerous and evil thing intended to deceive and manipulate.

I'm not going to say that Glenn Beck himself is doing anything underhanded since he probably believes most of what he's saying (I guess I can't say "all") -- I do think he's been less than honest about what this is all about.

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SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: ONLY TRUE BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIANS WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS. "Christians" who have been taught an ecumenical view that includes other "faiths" won't have a problem with it, nor would other religions that easily incorporate other beliefs. Nor would people who reject religion but appreciate Beck only for his political views, who would treat the spiritual elements as incidentals simply to be ignored.

IT'S ONLY BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIANS WHO ARE GOING TO BE LEFT OUT IN THE COLD AS THE LAST DAYS GO MARCHING ON.

Are Christians Selling Their Soul for Patriotism? Jan Markell on the Beck problem

Watched a little Glenn Beck today. Yeah, I like him, he tells important truths. If only he wasn't a Mormon. If only a Christian would do what he's doing. His rally was a great thing. If only it didn't have a spiritual snare at the heart of it.

Then I got an email this morning forwarding me something from Olive Tree Views, a ministry I'm not familiar with, but they're saying much the same thing I've been saying: Have We Anointed an Unworthy Shepherd?

By Jan Markell
www.olivetreeviews.org
August 31, 2010

Could we say that the church has failed to wake up very many people so, by default, a Mormon -- Glenn Beck -- has made quite a stir and has become an official spiritual leader? He rallied hundreds of thousands last weekend with themes of faith and love of our country. Americans are desperate and fearful of what is coming upon this land so they look to a Mormon for leadership. I am glad his Saturday event was successful for just some of these reasons:

* Americans came to celebrate America after the highest leaders in our land have trashed her around the world.

* They focused on what was right in America and they also honored our military.

* Faith and patriotism were lifted up -- two items that the Left despises.

* Attendees were passionate -- traveling thousands of miles and, once arriving in D.C., walking for miles, even if handicapped.

* Conservative Americans must gather together to fortify one another. Such events strengthen one another and offer hope. Finding kindred spirits in a depressing age is essential.

* Whether the Left heard or not, the attendees sent a message that they are fed up. November is around the corner and they had better look out.

In light of the positive aspects of the honoring America weekend, could there possibly be a down side?

I'm glad she starts with the positive, because that's what drew so many of us to the event, it's what we need in America. But of course then she goes on to describe the down side so read on. It got her some hate mail but nothing to the extent it's been getting me for mentioning it elsewhere.

She refers us to her own radio program where this was discussed a couple days before the event, and I'm going to put her title in large print because it says exactly what the problem is (click on the title to go to the radio broadcast page):

ARE AMERICAN CHRISTIANS SELLING THEIR SOUL FOR PATRIOTISM?

That IS the problem. That IS the question. That's what we're risking by letting a Mormon lead us. Here's her description of the radio show.

Listen to this broadcast. She does a great job of describing just why we love Glenn Beck before going on to discuss the problems for Christians in the fact that he's a Mormon.

Jan's guests include Brannon Howse, Eric Barger, and Ed Decker. The issue is Glenn Beck. Over two hours, the ultimate question is: are Christians selling their soul for patriotism? Most conservatives love Glenn Beck. He exposes evil and he loves America. He hates what is happening to this nation. But Glenn has another agenda as the panel proves over two hours: The subtle promotion of Mormonism. Listen and learn what is happening, why it is happening, and who are the Christians participating. While many suggest he is a "saved Mormon," the panel says that is not possible. About a dozen sound bytes are played that are revealing. The Mormons want to "save America" because it is the "promised land." God has a covenant with America. Not so. We urge you all to pray for Glenn Beck.

This is a GREAT discussion, everyone should listen to it. One thing that may recommend it is that the speakers are a lot more cool-headed than I am so you'll just LIKE them more. But also they assume that most Christians don't know anything about Mormonism so they go into great detail about what Mormonism is, in such detail that any Christian should recognize why it's a false religion. I tend to assume that Christians must know at least a little about these things because I know them, but apparently the ministries that teach against false religions aren't as accessible to Christians as they were ten or twenty years ago, and for some reason this information isn't available in local churches either. So this broadcast is a GREAT RESOURCE.

She also reports that even on Saturday Beck called the Indians the "chosen people" -- Mormon doctrine there -- and that people applauded. I'm just noting this now because I'm listening to the radio broadcast but I want to come back and link this later.

Right and Left equally PC on the question of Beck's Mormonism

The Left has nothing on the Right when it comes to condemning people for pointing out that Beck's Mormonism is a heresy, as I learned over the last few days. Of course you can also find leftist remarks in the same vein referring to Christians who are "intolerant" of Beck's religion, who are "haters" because we know his religion is a heresy. It would have helped a great deal if at least the Right got it right, but I have to say they are as bad if not worse when it comes to this version of Political Correctness.

Here are some remarks I got from a rightwing political blog to essentially the same message I've been posting here:

...it is clear that you are utterly fixated on hating people who do not share your opinions on theology.

Accusations of "hating" generally come from the left. It's part of the politically correct denunciation of any doctrine they oppose to characterize it in such terms in order to smear it. "Hate" is used to designate an opposing point of view, a view that opposes a doctrine they object to but they apply it to "people" rather than doctrine. There is no emotion of hate involved in any of it. And it's not about persons, it's about doctrine.

This particular quote, by the way, is from someone who thinks he's a Christian but denies the Deity of Christ.

...He did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show any Mormonism in that rally...I think you know that.

And I thought I was clear that Mormons DON'T show their Mormonism under such circumstances -- it's his BEING a Mormon that precludes Christians from joining with him ON RELIGIOUS MATTERS, not what he says, and again, it matters in the context of a RELIGIOUS rally, not a political rally. But I guess that just falls on deaf ears.

[Much later: I have to note here that I finally got to hear the first part of the rally in which Beck talks about how the Indians are God's chosen people -- so he certainly did show his Mormonism in that rally. But my original point still stands. Simply KNOWING Beck is a Mormon while evangelical songs and messages are being given at his rally, requires you not to participate. Beck has gone beyond politics into religion and there we cannot follow him.]

Glenn Beck's beliefs are none of my business. They are his and God's....and no one else has the right nor the moral authority to judge him.

Nobody is judging HIM (in fact we like him and his politics), we are judging his religious beliefs alone and we DO have the right to do that, and fact we are REQUIRED to do that. But I understand that this comes from someone who isn't a believer -- though he claims to be one and has a well worked out "theology."

Who are you to preach to us? We're adults. If we can accept others who we may feel have good hearts and are sincere, why is that your concern?

You are not the one who judges who is worthy, or faithful. Or have you forgotten that.

If you disagree with me what's the problem, do as you please. Why condemn me for giving my Bible-based view of it?

I'd like to remind you that Glenn Beck is also a son of God, loved by Him. How dare you attack such a man.

Also a son of God? Not according to the Bible. Not according to mainstream Christian theology. But also nobody IS attacking Glenn Beck, I've said only positive things about him personally.

They also can't tell the difference between a personal put-down and a doctrinal statement that may happen to hurt someone's feelings. I really did think better of the Right than this, apparently mistakenly thought there were more true Christians among them. No longer.

I didn't get ONE note of agreement, not ONE Christian able to see that the Bible tells us we must avoid looking like we are in agreement with heretics on RELIGIOUS matters. I did get one person pointing out that the ripe terminology in which a few excoriated my character works both ways and I'm grateful for that much -- that is, it takes puffed up pride to accuse me of that, and it takes a judgmental spirit to accuse me of that.

On the Left, they don't know whether to hate religion or to hate Christians who they call "haters" who recognize that Mormonism is a heresy (and haven't shown one iota of anything remotely describable as "hate" in any of it). I for one have said nothing but positive things about Glenn Beck himself and so has everyone else I've read who nevertheless points out that a Christian can't join in a religious rally with a Mormon. But PC perverts everything. I believe we are now in the period of the Great Delusion and it's going to be very few who can find their way out of it.

Well, I don't want to make too big a thing out of this. It hurts to be talked to like this but I have to remember that my only reason for saying anything at all is to try to be true to God and His word, and it's only to be expected that I will get this kind of response, it goes with the territory. It's hard to learn to love one's enemies and forgive this kind of thing but with the Lord's help I'll do it.

Besides, it only makes sense in the context of the last days that Christians would be getting more and more marginalized, alienated from everything worldly, even the best of political and cultural thought. It has to be that way. And this line from scripture keeps coming to mind: I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

If He was wounded by His friends nobody who claims to follow Him should object to the same treatment.

Anyway, I collected a few links on the media's take on Beck's Mormonism to mull over and perhaps comment on at my leisure.

http://blogs.standard.net/2010/08/mormon-obsessed-christians-add-their-pound-of-hate-to-glenn-beck-rally/

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/08/30/5002484-blog-buzz-all-about-glenn-beck

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/mormons-evangelicals-and-glenn-beck/

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Later: What IS the problem here anyway? I'm thinking now of my commenter who has also followed me to this post after multiplying comments on previous posts. He says he has an evangelical Lutheran background so he OUGHT to understand why this issue is an issue, but no, he finds fault with me for making it an issue, as if it's something mostly peculiar to me rather than the testimony of the entire church for 2000 years. What IS the problem? Do they not teach the Bible any more? Do they not exhort believers to put God's word above all things in this world? What IS the problem? What have our churches lost?

I thought I'd also add another quote from the blog where I've been so criticized for this same "offense" I've committed of warning Christians that we must not appear to endorse a heresy. It's the usual but he goes on:

And might I ask, where were all the "Christian" leaders in this country? Are they holding events to restore honor to America? Are they giving up their time, their money, and placing themselves in danger in order to rescue this country from the true enemies thereof

I said something along these lines myself I think, and it's a reasonable objection. Where ARE the Christians? Some showed up on the stage at Glenn Beck's rally (but I got the impression that he asked many more who declined because of his Mormonism -- I hope to hear more about that eventually).

Beck really did do something this country needs, that's a really sad thing about all this. We NEED rallies for patriotism like this, and rallies for God too, and I wish wish wish there were Christians who could do it.

I'm beginning to realize that the church is in such bad shape these days -- and of course now I have to add these strange antibiblical responses to a straightforward call to avoid aligning with a heretic -- that all we'll ever get is a Mormon doing it and we can't stand with him on a religious program. Sorry, no, not ever. Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:7-11 (King James only, though, or you'll be misled).

The churches are letting down the country. Judgment begins at the house of God too. (Doesn't that mean we should support Beck? Painfully, no. Of course not. Not when he pushes an explicitly religious program, absolutely not. We've already failed so we're going to disobey more? Great idea there.)

So I agree with this person to this extent. He goes on:

This is exactly the kind of fighting and extremism the left likes conservatives to have --espeically within the religious world. You see, they have the religious right pegged: They always, always, always, get tunnel vision and argue about minute points/qualities, rather than being able to focus on the big picture: What is right for America.

There is NOTHING tunnel-visioned about obeying God. It's Number One Priority.

One thing I think, I hope, I'm gaining from all this, is a more determined separation from the world. I care a LOT less what the left thinks of conservatives at this point -- and what the right thinks as well. I've been learning painfully that what people think these days USUALLY has little to do with the reality. It's hard to take so I argue and argue and argue but I'm coming to face the fact that arguing accomplishes nothing. People still think what they think. It's hard to take but it's a fact and I'm trying to learn to live with it.

But when all worldly avenues fail, God IS there, and I actually feel a kind of excitement at the idea of giving up more of my worldly pursuits to spend more time with Him. I suspect the Glenn Beck situation is just the latest and biggest way He's putting some of His own in a corner for this purpose, to show us the futility of our own methods, to seek Him more. I hope others also get the message.

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Some more links I want to add, undigested but provocative, all discussing Beck's Mormonism.

Here's a blogger quoting Russell Moore, whom I also quoted a post or two below:
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/08/30/the-gospel-and-glenn-beck/

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/julieingersoll/3182/evangelical_tells_beck_he%E2%80%99s_%E2%80%9Coff_the_reservation%E2%80%9D_/

(Sad to find out in that one that David Barton almost treats Beck as a Christian)

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/27/some-evangelicals-on-defensive-over-partnering-with-glenn-beck-a-mormon/?hpt=C2

http://www.politicususa.com/en/beck-mormon-evangelical

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One more rather odd comment from the Beck argument (To be more accurate this is in answer to a previous similar objection that it's "unloving" and "judgmental" to call a heresy a heresy):

I think some feel moved to inform and guide the unbeliever and it takes the form of judgment sometimes.

There seems to be some confusion here. We aren't talking about unbelievers, we are talking only about believers, people who CLAIM to be believers anyway, and if they give opinions about Christian theology that are false that makes them heretics, not unbelievers, and we ARE obliged to identify heretics and false doctrine. AND we do it not for the sake of the heretic, but for people who might be swayed by the heretic. People who are simply unbelievers are something else entirely.