Christians sadly continue to be deceived about Glenn Beck

An article at the Christian magazine, WORLD naively accepting of Glenn Beck.

But it was obvious to me that Beck wasn’t into the extra money or fame. It was obvious to me that he was a new creation in Christ. I know he’s Mormon and all that. I also remember reading a book by Professor Harvey Conn decades ago that said that you have to be very careful when judging a person’s salvation—some people with lousy theology have their hearts right with God, and some people with impeccable theology are cold toward God.

Glenn Beck isn’t cold toward God. He is red hot. He is “a brand plucked from the fire” (Zechariah 3:2). He knows what pit he was in—and he knows exactly who took him out of it. If I were his station manager I would be biting my fingernails every day, because the man just doesn’t hold back about Jesus, and I can say without hesitation that I have not heard the essentials of the gospel more clearly and boldly in any church than on his program.

I have heard all the criticisms, and I can find sympathy for them—about the Mormonism, about the dangers of religious syncretism, etc. But regarding the Mormon thing, I think we should regard Beck as an Apollos and pray for a Priscilla and Aquila in his life, to steer him better (Acts 18). I just don’t see how anyone can listen to the man for a solid week and not be as blessed as I am by his courage, his utter lack of fear of man, and his sharp and personal testimony of Christ’s transforming power.

Oh this hurts, this hurts. WORLD is a Christian magazine, there ought to be more discernment here. Beck doesn't hold back on Jesus, but his Jesus is not the Christian Jesus. He "knows" who took him out of the pit and it was Jesus, but his Jesus is not the Christian Jesus.

Beck CAN preach the gospel so that it sounds Christian, he's amazing that way, although I've known another Mormon who can talk gospel almost as well and make you think they believe what any Christian believes. If you know anything about Mormonism, though, that puts you in the position of waiting bug-eyed for the other shoe to drop. Eventually it does and the very strange and twisted Mormon version of the gospel is revealed.

At his rally on August 28th he revealed some of those Mormon beliefs that show his version of the gospel is not the Christian version. He believes American Indians are Jews, because he believes the tall tale of the Book of Mormon about some Jews coming across the ocean to the Americas back in 600 BC -- or 3000 BC or whatever -- and becoming the progenitors of the native Americans, who were then encountered by the Pilgrims when they arrived however many centuries or millennia later.

Beck's God is not the one true God. It's painful to think so many Christians are apparently so easily deceived or willing to rationalize it away and stand with a heretic for the sake of politics.

That same issue has another comment on Beck, by Marvin Olasky, the magazine's founder, Beckoning Christians, which gives good reasons why Christians should not align with him, while oddly, it seems to me, not exactly warning Christians against it:

...Let's watch the Beck movement and pray that it does not become a cult of personality.

...Bottom line: Glenn Beck is not the problem. His entertaining lectures are a slap in the face to poisonous political correctness. He's not the antidote, either. Christians should take refuge in the Lord and not in a beckoning embrace. But this country is better off with Glenn Beck than without him.

The COUNTRY is better off with Glenn Beck than without him!!! Well, maybe, maybe not. This IS the thought that keeps Christians from pulling away from him, however. The guy does a great job with all the political issues we care about most. It's like having a tooth pulled out with a wrench to have to draw back from his cause. Finally someone comes along with the guts and the message we've been craving and he's a heretic and Christians CANNOT ALIGN WITH A HERETIC. Ouch. Owwwwwwwch.

But is making Beck into a little god the problem here? The "cult of personality" danger Olasky sees in this? I suppose it could become that, but that misses the primary point that Beck is doing everything in his power to make Mormonism look like Christianity and deceiving Christians who love his politics, and THAT's the danger right now.

Again, Beck's gospel is not the Christian gospel no matter how much he can make it sound like it, and maybe even believe it himself, at least to some extent. Again, if he stuck to politics ONLY we could join with him. But he doesn't. Clearly lately he's on a mission to religionize his message.

That's what makes him dangerous.

Mormonism would NOT be good for this country if it ever got a political foothold and if it did, Christians would rue the day because Mormons have an agenda of their own, which I touched on briefly a few posts back. I should do more research into this and post on it again soon, but my impression is that Mormonism in political power wouldn't be much more desirable than Islam in political power, and they DO seek that kind of political power.

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P.S. Here's a good discussion of the problem with the WORLD article by Justin Taylor at Gospel Coalition, Andrée Seu’s Tragic Mistake on the Gospel of Glenn Beck.

Did you know that "America's Divine Destiny" is a specifically Mormon concoction? (Beck's version anyway)

[NOTE, 9/4: I'm pursuing topics that apply to the end times right now and posting them on the blog End Times Monitor. Recognizing the spiritual implications of the Glenn Beck rally startled me into realizing that we are definitely in a HUGE spiritual battle right now, and through the ministry of Olive Tree Views on the subject of Beck and end times questions, I got taken back to thinking more about the end times, which I think Christians SHOULD be focusing on right now.]
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Even more disturbing from a Christian point of view than Glenn Beck's 8/28 rally is the event he put on the day before, 8/27, called "America's Divine Destiny" at the Kennedy Center. You have to pay to see a video of this event at Beck's site so I'm not going to get to see it, but the description he gives of it there is enough to tell all you need to know:

Glenn Beck’s Divine Destiny is an eye-opening evening at the historic Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C that will help heal your soul. Guided by uplifting music, nationally-known religious figures from all faiths will unite to deliver messages reminiscent to those given during the struggles of America’s earliest days. The event will leave you with a renewed determination to look past the partisan differences and petty problems that fill our airwaves and instead focus our shared values, principles and strong belief that faith can play an essential role in reuniting the country.

I didn't know that the idea that America has a Divine Destiny is a Mormon belief. I learned this from listening to the radio broadcast at Olive Tree Ministries I linked in the last post (and I'll link it here again too). The belief is that America is destined to be ruled by the Mormon church, and ruled under a form of socialism too.

This ought to shake up everyone, not just Christians, but even without knowing that, Christians ought to see something to be avoided in the description of the event given above. "Religious figures from all faiths" are expected to inspire one to "focus on our shared values, principles and strong belief that faith can play an essential role in reuniting the country."

Christians with a patriotic love of America are of course attracted to the basic goal here and may at first fall for the rhetoric, but it ought to soon become clear that this is a cruel deceit, a bait-and-switch to lure the unwary into a false religion.

Then in advertising this event after the fact Beck says that those who attended "felt the spirit" there even more than at the rally next day.

WHAT spirit that might have been has to be a question, since the Holy Spirit only glorifies Jesus Christ as presented in the Bible, who was begotten of the Holy Spirit Himself, not the fake Jesus Christ of Mormonism they believe was sexually begotten by a fleshly human "Heavenly Father."

There must be a great number of deceived people who think they are Christian -- or perhaps some of them actually are Christians, since scripture does tell us that "even the elect may be deceived" -- for a time at least. But only for a time. If they soberly face the fact that "many faiths" oppose the one true God, and learn the truth about the Mormon religion, then they ought to be able to see that the spiritual claims for an event such as this are nothing but deception to be shunned like the plague.

There is something just deeply deeply sad about all this, how such a hopeful good thing that fulfills so much of what conservatives desire to see in this country turns out to be really such a dangerous and evil thing intended to deceive and manipulate.

I'm not going to say that Glenn Beck himself is doing anything underhanded since he probably believes most of what he's saying (I guess I can't say "all") -- I do think he's been less than honest about what this is all about.

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SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: ONLY TRUE BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIANS WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS. "Christians" who have been taught an ecumenical view that includes other "faiths" won't have a problem with it, nor would other religions that easily incorporate other beliefs. Nor would people who reject religion but appreciate Beck only for his political views, who would treat the spiritual elements as incidentals simply to be ignored.

IT'S ONLY BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIANS WHO ARE GOING TO BE LEFT OUT IN THE COLD AS THE LAST DAYS GO MARCHING ON.

Are Christians Selling Their Soul for Patriotism? Jan Markell on the Beck problem

Watched a little Glenn Beck today. Yeah, I like him, he tells important truths. If only he wasn't a Mormon. If only a Christian would do what he's doing. His rally was a great thing. If only it didn't have a spiritual snare at the heart of it.

Then I got an email this morning forwarding me something from Olive Tree Views, a ministry I'm not familiar with, but they're saying much the same thing I've been saying: Have We Anointed an Unworthy Shepherd?

By Jan Markell
www.olivetreeviews.org
August 31, 2010

Could we say that the church has failed to wake up very many people so, by default, a Mormon -- Glenn Beck -- has made quite a stir and has become an official spiritual leader? He rallied hundreds of thousands last weekend with themes of faith and love of our country. Americans are desperate and fearful of what is coming upon this land so they look to a Mormon for leadership. I am glad his Saturday event was successful for just some of these reasons:

* Americans came to celebrate America after the highest leaders in our land have trashed her around the world.

* They focused on what was right in America and they also honored our military.

* Faith and patriotism were lifted up -- two items that the Left despises.

* Attendees were passionate -- traveling thousands of miles and, once arriving in D.C., walking for miles, even if handicapped.

* Conservative Americans must gather together to fortify one another. Such events strengthen one another and offer hope. Finding kindred spirits in a depressing age is essential.

* Whether the Left heard or not, the attendees sent a message that they are fed up. November is around the corner and they had better look out.

In light of the positive aspects of the honoring America weekend, could there possibly be a down side?

I'm glad she starts with the positive, because that's what drew so many of us to the event, it's what we need in America. But of course then she goes on to describe the down side so read on. It got her some hate mail but nothing to the extent it's been getting me for mentioning it elsewhere.

She refers us to her own radio program where this was discussed a couple days before the event, and I'm going to put her title in large print because it says exactly what the problem is (click on the title to go to the radio broadcast page):

ARE AMERICAN CHRISTIANS SELLING THEIR SOUL FOR PATRIOTISM?

That IS the problem. That IS the question. That's what we're risking by letting a Mormon lead us. Here's her description of the radio show.

Listen to this broadcast. She does a great job of describing just why we love Glenn Beck before going on to discuss the problems for Christians in the fact that he's a Mormon.

Jan's guests include Brannon Howse, Eric Barger, and Ed Decker. The issue is Glenn Beck. Over two hours, the ultimate question is: are Christians selling their soul for patriotism? Most conservatives love Glenn Beck. He exposes evil and he loves America. He hates what is happening to this nation. But Glenn has another agenda as the panel proves over two hours: The subtle promotion of Mormonism. Listen and learn what is happening, why it is happening, and who are the Christians participating. While many suggest he is a "saved Mormon," the panel says that is not possible. About a dozen sound bytes are played that are revealing. The Mormons want to "save America" because it is the "promised land." God has a covenant with America. Not so. We urge you all to pray for Glenn Beck.

This is a GREAT discussion, everyone should listen to it. One thing that may recommend it is that the speakers are a lot more cool-headed than I am so you'll just LIKE them more. But also they assume that most Christians don't know anything about Mormonism so they go into great detail about what Mormonism is, in such detail that any Christian should recognize why it's a false religion. I tend to assume that Christians must know at least a little about these things because I know them, but apparently the ministries that teach against false religions aren't as accessible to Christians as they were ten or twenty years ago, and for some reason this information isn't available in local churches either. So this broadcast is a GREAT RESOURCE.

She also reports that even on Saturday Beck called the Indians the "chosen people" -- Mormon doctrine there -- and that people applauded. I'm just noting this now because I'm listening to the radio broadcast but I want to come back and link this later.

Right and Left equally PC on the question of Beck's Mormonism

The Left has nothing on the Right when it comes to condemning people for pointing out that Beck's Mormonism is a heresy, as I learned over the last few days. Of course you can also find leftist remarks in the same vein referring to Christians who are "intolerant" of Beck's religion, who are "haters" because we know his religion is a heresy. It would have helped a great deal if at least the Right got it right, but I have to say they are as bad if not worse when it comes to this version of Political Correctness.

Here are some remarks I got from a rightwing political blog to essentially the same message I've been posting here:

...it is clear that you are utterly fixated on hating people who do not share your opinions on theology.

Accusations of "hating" generally come from the left. It's part of the politically correct denunciation of any doctrine they oppose to characterize it in such terms in order to smear it. "Hate" is used to designate an opposing point of view, a view that opposes a doctrine they object to but they apply it to "people" rather than doctrine. There is no emotion of hate involved in any of it. And it's not about persons, it's about doctrine.

This particular quote, by the way, is from someone who thinks he's a Christian but denies the Deity of Christ.

...He did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show any Mormonism in that rally...I think you know that.

And I thought I was clear that Mormons DON'T show their Mormonism under such circumstances -- it's his BEING a Mormon that precludes Christians from joining with him ON RELIGIOUS MATTERS, not what he says, and again, it matters in the context of a RELIGIOUS rally, not a political rally. But I guess that just falls on deaf ears.

[Much later: I have to note here that I finally got to hear the first part of the rally in which Beck talks about how the Indians are God's chosen people -- so he certainly did show his Mormonism in that rally. But my original point still stands. Simply KNOWING Beck is a Mormon while evangelical songs and messages are being given at his rally, requires you not to participate. Beck has gone beyond politics into religion and there we cannot follow him.]

Glenn Beck's beliefs are none of my business. They are his and God's....and no one else has the right nor the moral authority to judge him.

Nobody is judging HIM (in fact we like him and his politics), we are judging his religious beliefs alone and we DO have the right to do that, and fact we are REQUIRED to do that. But I understand that this comes from someone who isn't a believer -- though he claims to be one and has a well worked out "theology."

Who are you to preach to us? We're adults. If we can accept others who we may feel have good hearts and are sincere, why is that your concern?

You are not the one who judges who is worthy, or faithful. Or have you forgotten that.

If you disagree with me what's the problem, do as you please. Why condemn me for giving my Bible-based view of it?

I'd like to remind you that Glenn Beck is also a son of God, loved by Him. How dare you attack such a man.

Also a son of God? Not according to the Bible. Not according to mainstream Christian theology. But also nobody IS attacking Glenn Beck, I've said only positive things about him personally.

They also can't tell the difference between a personal put-down and a doctrinal statement that may happen to hurt someone's feelings. I really did think better of the Right than this, apparently mistakenly thought there were more true Christians among them. No longer.

I didn't get ONE note of agreement, not ONE Christian able to see that the Bible tells us we must avoid looking like we are in agreement with heretics on RELIGIOUS matters. I did get one person pointing out that the ripe terminology in which a few excoriated my character works both ways and I'm grateful for that much -- that is, it takes puffed up pride to accuse me of that, and it takes a judgmental spirit to accuse me of that.

On the Left, they don't know whether to hate religion or to hate Christians who they call "haters" who recognize that Mormonism is a heresy (and haven't shown one iota of anything remotely describable as "hate" in any of it). I for one have said nothing but positive things about Glenn Beck himself and so has everyone else I've read who nevertheless points out that a Christian can't join in a religious rally with a Mormon. But PC perverts everything. I believe we are now in the period of the Great Delusion and it's going to be very few who can find their way out of it.

Well, I don't want to make too big a thing out of this. It hurts to be talked to like this but I have to remember that my only reason for saying anything at all is to try to be true to God and His word, and it's only to be expected that I will get this kind of response, it goes with the territory. It's hard to learn to love one's enemies and forgive this kind of thing but with the Lord's help I'll do it.

Besides, it only makes sense in the context of the last days that Christians would be getting more and more marginalized, alienated from everything worldly, even the best of political and cultural thought. It has to be that way. And this line from scripture keeps coming to mind: I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

If He was wounded by His friends nobody who claims to follow Him should object to the same treatment.

Anyway, I collected a few links on the media's take on Beck's Mormonism to mull over and perhaps comment on at my leisure.

http://blogs.standard.net/2010/08/mormon-obsessed-christians-add-their-pound-of-hate-to-glenn-beck-rally/

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/08/30/5002484-blog-buzz-all-about-glenn-beck

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/mormons-evangelicals-and-glenn-beck/

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Later: What IS the problem here anyway? I'm thinking now of my commenter who has also followed me to this post after multiplying comments on previous posts. He says he has an evangelical Lutheran background so he OUGHT to understand why this issue is an issue, but no, he finds fault with me for making it an issue, as if it's something mostly peculiar to me rather than the testimony of the entire church for 2000 years. What IS the problem? Do they not teach the Bible any more? Do they not exhort believers to put God's word above all things in this world? What IS the problem? What have our churches lost?

I thought I'd also add another quote from the blog where I've been so criticized for this same "offense" I've committed of warning Christians that we must not appear to endorse a heresy. It's the usual but he goes on:

And might I ask, where were all the "Christian" leaders in this country? Are they holding events to restore honor to America? Are they giving up their time, their money, and placing themselves in danger in order to rescue this country from the true enemies thereof

I said something along these lines myself I think, and it's a reasonable objection. Where ARE the Christians? Some showed up on the stage at Glenn Beck's rally (but I got the impression that he asked many more who declined because of his Mormonism -- I hope to hear more about that eventually).

Beck really did do something this country needs, that's a really sad thing about all this. We NEED rallies for patriotism like this, and rallies for God too, and I wish wish wish there were Christians who could do it.

I'm beginning to realize that the church is in such bad shape these days -- and of course now I have to add these strange antibiblical responses to a straightforward call to avoid aligning with a heretic -- that all we'll ever get is a Mormon doing it and we can't stand with him on a religious program. Sorry, no, not ever. Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:7-11 (King James only, though, or you'll be misled).

The churches are letting down the country. Judgment begins at the house of God too. (Doesn't that mean we should support Beck? Painfully, no. Of course not. Not when he pushes an explicitly religious program, absolutely not. We've already failed so we're going to disobey more? Great idea there.)

So I agree with this person to this extent. He goes on:

This is exactly the kind of fighting and extremism the left likes conservatives to have --espeically within the religious world. You see, they have the religious right pegged: They always, always, always, get tunnel vision and argue about minute points/qualities, rather than being able to focus on the big picture: What is right for America.

There is NOTHING tunnel-visioned about obeying God. It's Number One Priority.

One thing I think, I hope, I'm gaining from all this, is a more determined separation from the world. I care a LOT less what the left thinks of conservatives at this point -- and what the right thinks as well. I've been learning painfully that what people think these days USUALLY has little to do with the reality. It's hard to take so I argue and argue and argue but I'm coming to face the fact that arguing accomplishes nothing. People still think what they think. It's hard to take but it's a fact and I'm trying to learn to live with it.

But when all worldly avenues fail, God IS there, and I actually feel a kind of excitement at the idea of giving up more of my worldly pursuits to spend more time with Him. I suspect the Glenn Beck situation is just the latest and biggest way He's putting some of His own in a corner for this purpose, to show us the futility of our own methods, to seek Him more. I hope others also get the message.

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Some more links I want to add, undigested but provocative, all discussing Beck's Mormonism.

Here's a blogger quoting Russell Moore, whom I also quoted a post or two below:
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/08/30/the-gospel-and-glenn-beck/

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/julieingersoll/3182/evangelical_tells_beck_he%E2%80%99s_%E2%80%9Coff_the_reservation%E2%80%9D_/

(Sad to find out in that one that David Barton almost treats Beck as a Christian)

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/27/some-evangelicals-on-defensive-over-partnering-with-glenn-beck-a-mormon/?hpt=C2

http://www.politicususa.com/en/beck-mormon-evangelical

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One more rather odd comment from the Beck argument (To be more accurate this is in answer to a previous similar objection that it's "unloving" and "judgmental" to call a heresy a heresy):

I think some feel moved to inform and guide the unbeliever and it takes the form of judgment sometimes.

There seems to be some confusion here. We aren't talking about unbelievers, we are talking only about believers, people who CLAIM to be believers anyway, and if they give opinions about Christian theology that are false that makes them heretics, not unbelievers, and we ARE obliged to identify heretics and false doctrine. AND we do it not for the sake of the heretic, but for people who might be swayed by the heretic. People who are simply unbelievers are something else entirely.

The problem isn't Beck, it's the "Christians" who haven't a clue

Another Christian voice chimes in on Beck. I'm not sure I grasp entirely what he's trying to say but I think I agree with most of it and it seems worth posting some of it here.

From a website called The Florida Baptist Witness
Point of View: God, the Gospel, and Glenn Beck
by RUSSELL D. MOORE
Article Date: Aug 29, 2010

A Mormon television star stands in front of the Lincoln Memorial and calls American Christians to revival. He assembles some evangelical celebrities to give testimonies, and then preaches a God and country revivalism that leaves the evangelicals cheering that they’ve heard the gospel, right there in the nation’s capital.

The news media pronounces him the new leader of America’s Christian conservative movement, and a flock of America’s Christian conservatives have no problem with that.

If you’d told me that ten years ago, I would have assumed it was from the pages of an evangelical apocalyptic novel about the end-times. But it’s not. It’s from this week’s headlines. And it is a scandal.

Good point. This is strange indeed, this scandal, when you think of it in historical perspective. And hey, maybe he's onto something here saying it sounds like a novel about the end times, 'cause this is exactly the sort of thing that we could expect as the end approaches and the church is weakened. I put "Christians" in quotes in the title of this post because it's hard to believe that many of them are really Christians at all because of their doctrinal mush-headedness.

That it could happen at all is bizarre. Yes, a flock of America's Christian conservatives HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT -- the fact that they are being led by a Mormon and think they've heard the gospel.

Fox News commentator Glenn Beck, of course, is that Mormon at the center of all this. Beck isn’t the problem. He’s an entrepreneur, he’s brilliant, and, hats off to him, he knows his market. Latter-day Saints have every right to speak, with full religious liberty, in the public square. I’m quite willing to work with Mormons on various issues, as citizens working for the common good.

Good point that needs emphasizing. The problem isn't Glenn Beck, who is only doing what one would expect him to do.

What concerns me here is not what this says about Beck or the “Tea Party” or any other entertainment or political figure. What concerns me is about what this says about the Christian churches in the United States.

Yes, this is the problem. The most amazing thing is that the CHRISTIANS are accepting this state of affairs. In fact I've been encountering aggressive objections FROM Christians (or people who think they are Christians anyway, as I know some of them aren't) when I've tried to say something about what's wrong with this in the last couple of days.

To be fair, I didn't immediately see what was wrong with it either, though I had an uncomfortable feeling about it. It didn't become clear until it got through to me that this wasn't just a political or patriotic rally but a religious rally, that the God talk wasn't simply incidental but the whole thing was almost a gospel show. We can stand with a Mormon politically, but on the gospel, no. He has a different gospel.

It’s taken us a long time to get here, in this plummet from Francis Schaeffer to Glenn Beck. In order to be this gullible, American Christians have had to endure years of vacuous talk about undefined “revival” and “turning America back to God” that was less about anything uniquely Christian than about, at best, a generically theistic civil religion and, at worst, some partisan political movement.

This no doubt has much to do with it (though I have to say it is NOT a very long time at all from Schaeffer to this current state of gullibility, what, a couple generations?). But there also seem to be an awful lot of Christians out there who know NOTHING about the Christianity they supposedly espouse. It makes my head spin to think about the various opinions I've encountered recently about these things, and I am definitely not up to discussing any of it yet. But it is appalling what "Christians" think Christianity is about. And besides that there is also an aggressive attitude that they shouldn't have to think about it all, that one shouldn't disturb them with information beyond their present level of ignorance -- an idea I gather comes from some garbled notion that they can only know as much as God has personally allowed them to know (I may have this wrong because it makes no sense to me no matter how I look at it). So the idea seems to be that they shouldn't have to know anything more than they already know, which is basically that whatever they believe is good and anyone who suggests maybe they have something wrong is -- a hypocrite maybe, a Pharisee perhaps, just chock full of sins galore. They will judge you harshly in the most searing personal terms for being "judgmental" if you suggest there is such a thing as an objective standard of doctrine -- yes, criticize doctrine and you get critized personally in return -- really, slammed, lambasted, excoriated. It's truly amazing. And depressing.

...Mormonism and Mammonism are contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. They offer another Lord Jesus than the One offered in the Scriptures and Christian tradition, and another way to approach him. An embrace of these tragic new vehicles for the old Gnostic heresy is unloving to our Mormon friends and secularist neighbors, and to the rest of the watching world. Any “revival” that is possible without the Lord Jesus Christ is a “revival” of a different kind of spirit than the Spirit of Christ (1 Jn. 4:1-3).

... The answer includes local churches that preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, and disciple their congregations to know the difference between the kingdom of God and the latest political whim.

...It’s sad to see so many Christians confusing Mormon politics or American nationalism with the gospel of Jesus Christ. But, don’t get me wrong, I’m not pessimistic. Jesus will build his church, and he will build it on the gospel. He doesn’t need American Christianity to do it. Vibrant, loving, orthodox Christianity will flourish, perhaps among the poor of Haiti or the persecuted of Sudan or the outlawed of China, but it will flourish.

And there will be a new generation, in America and elsewhere, who will be ready for a gospel that is more than just Fox News at prayer.

I don't think I can be that optimistic myself. Especially since I think there is most likely not even going to be time for such a new generation to emerge. But even if there is, where are the influences that could possibly bring it about? The dumbing down that has produced the present state of affairs doesn't show any signs of letting up that I can see. Of course somewhere ELSE -- OK, that's possible. Haiti, Sudan, China, great, bring it on.

Gathering steam against what Beck did yesterday

A Jewish guy on another blog mentioned that he had expected more of a straightforward patriotic conservative rally than what we got. That made me recognize that I too was surprised at what we got but it took his saying it to make me see it. What we got was something more like The Old Time Gospel Hour -- from a heretic yet.

Yes, the more I think about it the bolder I get about this, the more I know that what Beck did yesterday was try to blur the distinctions between Christianity and Mormonism as much as anything else he was doing there, try to overcome the opprobrium in which Mormonism is rightly held by the majority of Christians by doing what Mormons usually try to do -- act as if they are just another Christian denomination. Since he has such a strong conservative following he can count on some of the Christians just getting in line like unthinking sheep -- because his conservative patriotic message is so powerful. And it is, I agree, that's his attraction, he does a great job with it and I wish we COULD support him, but for a Christian it's a snare, it's poison.

Spit it out, Christians.

Now, I WANT a rally around the name of Jesus myself, nothing would make me happier than a REAL revival in this nation, led of course by God, not a trumped up "revival" of the sort that too many Christians have come to associate with the term, and certainly not a revival led by a Mormon. But I'm sure it was the Christian emphasis yesterday that got me into the event as much as I did, and that's why I've been having to struggle so much to free myself from the entanglement with false Christianity which is what it was really all about. I would love a true Christian rally for this nation on such a scale, but I want it from a true Christian base, not from a Mormon. Beyond that, not just a rally, a man-made thing, but a God-born revival. I yearn for it.

I also wondered what Jews could do with all the references to Jesus, which someone else raised at the other forum too. Well, at a true Christian rally, Jews can stand with us if they can accept our emphasis on Jesus, and some do these days, recognizing honestly that it's America's Christian heritage that provided the freedoms they have enjoyed along with everyone else. But I think they too were flimflammed yesterday. They shouldn't be put in the position of thinking they're there for a patriotic rally only to find out they're in church.

Oh yes, Glenn Beck is a very nice guy, a strongly patriotic guy, a true American conservative, no doubt about it.

Well, the devil wraps his poison in very attractive packages, Christians, he doesn't come poking with his pitchfork. That comes later, after he knows he's got you.

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Later: The person who commented on this post seems to think I ONLY want Christians to rally. No, I thought I've been clear, we can have a multi-religion POLITICAL and PATRIOTIC rally, and other groups can have their religious rallies, and my desire for a Christian REVIVAL that is God-brought certainly doesn't contradict freedom of religion. If my commenter had been reading carefully I think he could see that's been my position all along, though I may not always have been clear enough about it.

More on why Christians must reject Glenn Beck

I hadn't been watching Glenn Beck lately but since I just wrote about his being a Mormon and how whatever he says about God has to be rejected by Christians for that reason, I did some more research to see how far he has been willing to go in following Mormon doctrine. I'd never heard him say anything specifically Mormon, mostly generic God talk that could place him as an evangelical Christian. It turns out he is indeed a good Mormon and does indeed advertise his acceptance of their false teachings.

Found This blog that gets into specifics.

Most know that he is a Mormon, as he is open about his LDS faith on his show. Most don’t care.

Should we?

Well, until the show which aired on August 18th, 2010, I didn’t. Sure, I knew he was a member of the Mormon church, but other than a few language oddities such as his constant reference to “Heavenly Father” and his consistent use of the phrase “the scriptures” instead of the Bible, I never really saw much LDS theology in his show.

That all changed yesterday.

Now, my point in writing this isn’t to go out of my way to pick a fight with the Mormon Church, but my role as an Elder in a Christian church compels me to defend the flock against wolves, and in this case, Beck has crossed the line into “wolfdom.” Because so many Christians watch and enjoy his show, including many in my own church, I was forced to offer a response.

The premise of his August 18th show was this:

“The Native Americans were descended from an ancient civilization that existed on this continent in pre-historic and Biblical times. This civilization, had large cities and a very advanced culture, including a writing system and higher religious thought”

Beck went so far as to say, “The ancient Indians actually had religious writings which were a proto-Hebrew Bible”. He also offered the “fact” that the Native Americans were descended from the Jews.

He went on to cite various “scholars”, “experts” and “archaeologists” who support this claim.

Not only that, but he mentioned a “shocking DVD”, a documentary, that tells us the true story, a story that has been covered up by mainstream science for political reasons. He even gave the web address for the DVD he was talking about. If history is any indication, he just made those filmmakers very wealthy.

This is powerful stuff. Where have I heard this before?

These are the beliefs held by the Mormon Church, and written about by Joseph Smith in the Book of Mormon.

And if you read on you'll find a discussion of some of the main differences between Mormon belief and true Christian belief, such as the nature of God and Christ.

Now that I know just HOW Mormon he is I am even more certain that Christians MUST reject him. This lovely call to restore honor to America is very enticing to conservatives, including me. He's got a genuine patriotism, he's a sincere and likeable guy, he's putting up with a lot of unfair attacks on him too. I wish we could support his work BUT WE CAN'T!!!!

This is a test, people, this is the devil coming as an angel of light to deceive. In fact God is using this to separate the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. Do not be deceived. America is not our permanent home, our citizenship is elsewhere. It would be great if genuine Christians got up and did what Beck did, but I think the handwriting is on the wall myself. I believe it's Beck because God is judging this nation and He's not going to relent, He's going to force us to choose between Him and ANYTHING in this world, even good things.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

RECEIVE HIM NOT INTO YOUR HOUSE, NEITHER BID HIM GOD SPEED!!!!!

Here's another briefer discussion of the implications of supporting Glenn Beck.

And while I'm at it I should collect a few links to discussions of what Mormons actually believe:

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/mormonism.html

http://www.thebereancall.org/search/node/Mormonism

That's enough for a start.

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Later: Let me try to be clearer AGAIN: If Beck's rally had been merely political there would not be this problem. And on his show if he didn't argue for his religion at ALL -- which I wrongly thought was the case until I read what I quoted above -- we shouldn't have a problem with that either. But when he comes out with his religion as if it is fact and when he puts on a rally clearly aimed at blurring the distinctions between Mormonism and Christianity, THEN we have a BIG problem.