I came across your blog and was very refreshed to see your posts on discernment issues. However, I am perplexed on The Harbinger issue. Are you defending that book??? Did you know Cahn is very much a part of the charismatic movement as far as his rubbing shoulders with them? Did you know you Cahn heavily endorses gnostic books such as Zohar and Kabalah?
To which I answered:
Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am definitely defending the Harbinger, and I'm aware of all the issues you raise about it, having commented on them in various posts. I've objected to Cahn's friendships among the charismatics but I was once a charismatic myself and I give people time to see the light on that one. None of Cahn's own teachings carries the charismatic message although some unfairly try to pin that on him.
As for the Zohar and the Kabbalah, no, that has been totally misunderstood. He does NOT "endorse" those books at ALL and those who have accused him of it are greatly in the wrong and should apologize to him. The ONLY way he uses the rabbinical writings is to discover the gospel in them, which he's good at. The rabbis often understood the scriptures correctly, UNTIL the true Messiah came along, when they changed their tune. Jonathan Cahn enjoys finding out how they understood the true gospel of the true Christ in spite of themselves.
Not sure why I made the remark about time to see through it, that's not really the point. The point is that he's not a charismatic.
Faith, with all do respect, but any "Christian" book that is a best seller, in a world that Jesus said "Hated Him first and will hate us too", smells of smoke. Cahn's affiliations with the charismatic movement ARE serious Faith, its like saying "Well Bill Johnson (a known charismatic) wrote this great book and well it takes time to get out of all that. So even though he's involved with heresy, its ok because people need time to get out." I am sorry but that is wrong. I came out of the charismatic movement too, and they have serious serious errors, ones that cannot simply be looked at with a passive attitude. His associations with it give people the impression that its OK and its not ok!
With the whole Hebrew Roots movement growing, and I am not talking Messianic Jew, I am talking about these new cults (like Jim Staley and Michael Rood) and teach we have to go back under the law and so on, and their embrace of the Zohar and Kabalah, and Cahn being quite similar, maybe not out right, but he walks that line, I am sorry but it just doesn't seem right. I guess we all have blind spots I guess I don't know, but you seem discerning and I am just saddened that you can't discern this guy. http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2012/harbinger-zohar.htm
Just like too, you mentioned Alex Jones, he did a documentary last year on straight evolution. And then when Christians admonished him he came out with a follow up video bashing christians. He highly esteems David Icke, a very very big theosophic new ager, the man is a wolf! My husband, who has just about walked away from God, listens to him so I know all this first hand.
I pray Faith that you will be shown the serious errors of these things. God bless you and I will pray for you.
I guess I'm going to have to do another post on the Harbinger after all this time. Cahn does not teach anything charismatic, ... , the book has nothing charismatic in it, and Berit Kjos misrepresents his teaching from the Zohar. I agree about his associations and have written about that but that's not the same thing as BEING a charismatic. I've also written against the Hebrew Roots movement. You'd have a point about the popularity of the book but remember that both the Bible and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress are all time bestsellers so your point only goes so far. Cahn is not a perfect man but overall he's been misrepresented.
I guess I'm going to have to do another post on the Harbinger after all this time. Cahn does not teach anything charismatic, ... , the book has nothing charismatic in it, and Berit Kjos misrepresents his teaching from the Zohar. I agree about his associations and have written about that but that's not the same thing as BEING a charismatic. I've also written against the Hebrew Roots movement. You'd have a point about the popularity of the book but remember that both the Bible and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress are all time bestsellers so your point only goes so far. Cahn is not a perfect man but overall he's been misrepresented.
I really don't know much about Alex Jones but liked that one thing I heard. Since I don't know much about him and have heard many negatives about him I think I'll take that down.
Please, if you're going to pray for someone, just pray, don't tell me I'm wrong and you'll pray, that's rather insulting.
Thanks,
Faith
This is my preliminary remark on Berit Kjos' mistaken response to Cahn's interest in a phrase from the Zohar:
| Isa 29:20-21 | ...all that watch for iniquity ..: |
| That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. |
All discernment ministries do in a sense "watch for inquity" but in the case of the supposed discerning of Jonathan Cahn they've gone over the line into condemning a brother in Christ who isn't perfect but is not guilty as charged. He has his own interests that the discerners can't appreciate.
2 comments:
Your defense of Cahn is sickening, especially in your denial of him not being affiliated with the charismatic movement. All you gotta do is YouTube him on heretic Sid Roth's "It's Supernatural" and see he is affiliated with them. Just cause he doesn't "teach" charismania, doesn't make any less in error! Especially when the Bible clearly says we are not to associate with evil doers but rather expose them! I will qoute an excerpt from Elliott Nesch:
"My concerns go deeper than mere charges of “guilty by association.” For instance, on October 24, 2011, Cahn launched his book on the Jim Bakker show. On April 5-8, 2012, Cahn was included with a team of ministers to celebrate Passover with Chuck Pierce, Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Barbara Yoder, David Demian, David Schneier, Judy Jacobs, Kyle Searcy, Paul Keith Davis and Robert Heidler. Dated June 18, 2012, The Jim Bakker show announced, “The prophets are coming – the word is going out! Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, Sid Roth, John Kilpatrick, Rick Joyner, John Shorey, Bobby Conner, Cindy Jacobs.” On September 27, 2012, Cahn appeared on This Is Your Day with Benny Hinn. In a personal e-mail correspondence, I was prompted to ask Cahn if he cautions his congregation against false teachers by name and what his criterion for false teachers is. He responded,
There is distinction between believers who may speak or teach some errors in fact or doctrine, a category that basically includes every believer – And the other category where someone teaches that which clearly contradicts a foundational and central core issue of faith – that would be place them outside the gospel and would justify the label of false teacher. If giving specific identification was warranted to protect believers from falling into error as touching the latter category, we would not be averse to doing so.
I also asked Cahn about his current affiliation and position on the New Apostolic Reformation. He responded:
I have no affiliation – There are those who assume that because one speaks from a specific platform, event, venue, conference, or media outlet, this means that one is in total or any agreement with the host or platform. This is not necessarily the case. By such a standard, they would judge Paul as a pagan for preaching at the pagan platform of Mars Hill. I will go and speak from virtually any platform I can that will allow me to give the warning of The Harbinger and the message of the Gospel unhindered – Whether I agree with that person on any issue or no issue – whether that platform be Christian, secular, Hindu, pagan – or a Mars Hill – as long as I am able to use that platform to preach unhindered, I will go.
I understand Cahn’s conviction about preaching at Mars Hill if need be as the Apostle Paul. But I would compare sharing the pulpit or being a guest in association with these false teachers as equivalent to early Christians sharing a venue with or speaking in a Gnostic congregation. I believe these teachers with which Cahn is affiliating and promoting his book are those which should be called out by name, exposed and avoided. Paul warned of those who would come in the last days with ”a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away” (2 Timothy 3:5). The Apostle John said, “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds” (2 John 10,11). Paul said, “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them” (Romans 16:17). These verses considered, the associations to false teachers are too close for comfort for me."
I also find it quite sad that you seem to be detouring from defending the gospel and now defend a mere man. So sad!
If you are going to address me in such a personal way, you should use a name instead of hiding behind "Anonymous." I find YOUR approach to me to be on the sickening side myself.
I'm aware of the problems with Cahn's affiliations, all those you mentioned, I've already commented on them, I have named names where I've been aware of them, and in fact I don't agree with him that appoearing on heavily charismatic venues is the same as Paul's speaking from Mars Hill.
His affiliations are a problem, no doubt at all, and he does believe the spiritual gifts are still in operation. There are true Christians who do believe that, you should know if you don't.
But from my own experience in charismatic circles I don't see any of that in Cahn's basic teachings, and The Harbinger, the book, does not teach any of that. SUPPOSEDLY IT'S THE BOOK THE CRITICS ARE CONCERNED WITH, but the critics are finding problems in the book that are simply not there, and this business about his connections with charismatics just confuses the whole picture. The absurdities of the criticism of the BOOK are what I mostly address. I think the message of the book holds up, and I wish he didn't have the charismatic affiliations.
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