Friday, November 30, 2012

Treachery in the Founding of America

A few weeks ago Jan Markell hosted a discussion on her Understanding the Times radio show, America's Roots and Founders, about the Founding Fathers of America, with Eric Barger and Jill Martin Rische, along with pastor Dan Fisher, in which the aim was to argue against those who say that the American Founders were not Christian. 

It was clear right from the start that there's a really huge confusion about these things that has to be resolved.  I was rather surprised that the main focus was on proving that the Founders were not Deists, surprised because I did think that idea had been clarified by now. 

First let's be clear that the Founders whose faith is in question are mainly the Big Five: Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin and Thomas Paine.  Although I was vaguely aware of problems with their beliefs for some time, over the last few months I've been convinced in stark and startling ways, mostly through Chris Pinto's film Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers, that they were far from Christian, and in fact were clear rejectors of the gospel of Jesus Christ.  This is what needs to be discussed here.

Other men involved in that era were brought up on the program but they only tend to confuse the issues further.  Patrick Henry for instance was clearly a Christian, he referred to Christ and to the gospel of salvation on many occasions.  Many preachers of the gospel were also discussed who were certainly Christians.  John Jay was mentioned, who was definitely a Christian.  There were many true Christians in various roles in government during the founding era, and in the Revolutionary War.  Much time was spent on the subject of the "Black Robed Regiment"* made up of Christian pastors who preached for Revolution and willingly fought and died for it.  And certainly the Christian foundations of America go back to the earliest settlers who were also true Christians, the Puritans and Pilgrims, and the nation can look back to them for strong Christian inspiration. 

But there is nevertheless a controversy about the true beliefs of the five founders I list above, the shapers of the new union through the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other documents.

It is quite true, as the participants on the program all agreed, that these Founders were not Deists in the sense that we understand that term to mean belief in a God who is not involved in human affairs.  Certainly Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin believed in Providence and in prayer, and the protection of God over a country that adhered to His moral laws.  And a great deal of what they say along those lines can sound awfully Christian to Christian ears, much of which was quoted on the program.  Franklin, for instance, who was considered the least religious, nevertheless is the one who called for prayer by the Constitutional Congress. 

The confusing thing is that they can sound so Christian and yet in fact reject the essentials of the Christian faith.  ALL of them deny the Deity of Christ, even in the case of Adams and Jefferson ridiculing it.  Adams was a Unitarian, so he officially denied the Trinity, he also ridiculed it in his letters as did his wife Abigail, and ridiculed such basic Christian doctrine as that Christ was God incarnate born of a virgin.   Jefferson denied ALL the supernatural elements of the Bible.  Franklin said he doubted the deity of Christ.  Washington refused to take communion at his Anglican church while he was President in Philadelphia.  His pastor called him a "Deist" in so many words, though there is reason now to regard that designation as not quite on the mark as I go on to discuss below.

Yet they all approved of the MORALITY of Jesus Christ, or at least some of the morality taught in His name.  That's really ALL they approved of.  They thought it would be fine if the nation were founded on that MORALITY, but certainly not on the gospel of salvation by Christ, which they considered to be a primitive myth not worthy of belief by intelligent people   They were men of the Age of Reason, as Paine titled his book that made it once and for all evident that he was no Christian however much he might have supported Christian principles in a general sort of way through the Revolutionary era.  These were Enlightenment men, who believed that human reason was the arbiter of all truth, so they rejected all claims to supernatural occurrences such as a virgin birth or resurrection from the dead as contrary to Reason, and believed humanity was growing up and would soon do away with such foolishness.  Sound familiar?  Lot of that we hear today as well.

The God they believed in was the God of Masonry and Unitarianism or even the God of Reason if that makes any sense, but NOT the God of the Bible.

Gregg Frazer is a scholar who is affiliated with John MacArthur's Masters College who did a thorough study of the beliefs of the Founding generation and published his findings in a book, The Religious Beliefs of America's Founders: Reason, Revelation, Revolution in which he argues that they were neither Deists nor Christians.  He came up with a new term, "theistic rationalism" to describe their beliefs. 

They did believe in a God who intervened in human affairs, they did believe in prayer, they did believe the nation needed to submit to God's moral law if it was to prosper, but they also adamantly and pointedly rejected the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith.

Surely it doesn't serve our cause to go on being deceived by this.  America has plenty of true Christian history to lean on that we can invoke, including true Christian leaders who went on affirming the Christian nature of the nation even after the Founders had done their dirty work of treachery against the majority Christian population. 

And that is how I've come to think of it. They were traitors.  Chris Pinto's film Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers, makes this clear.

The Understanding the Times broadcast starts out quoting the famous line from the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights...
And we as Christians have pointed to that reference to the Creator to prove the Christian underpinnings of the Declaration.  But this turns out to be a deception.  Chris Pinto in his film about the founders points out that the concept of "self-evident" truths is an Enlightenment idea, that in fact it was specifically put in the Declaration as a CONTRADICTION to the Biblical claim that it is GOD who determines our equality, NOT REASON.  Reason declares some philosophical positions to be self-evident according to human judgment but to a Christian it is the Biblical revelation that establishes humanity as equal because of our descent from Adam and Eve.  The "Creator" referred to in the Declaration is not the God of the Bible, but "the God of Nature" who is more compatible with the antiChristian beliefs of the Founders.

In his film Pinto also interviews ex-Mormon and expert on Mormonism and Masonry, Ed Decker, who states that the Declaration of Independence was written on a MASONIC LAMBSKIN.  THAT was supposed to be such a great boon to the nation, but to a Christian it ought to be recognized as blasphemy and a denial of the God of the Bible.

A pastor who researched the beliefs of the founding fathers is also quoted in the film as having discovered that they were all "infidels," and also that it had been debated whether or not to refer to God in the Constitution and it was decided NOT to.

Now, that ought to be enough to show that the founders that are so often misreprsented as Christians were actually antichrists (those who deny that Jesus is God come in the flesh) and traitors to the Christian population of America.

But Pinto also delves deeper and finds some very interesting historical background on the concept of "religious liberty" as written into our Constitution.  This concept goes back to the Catholic monarch James II of England who introduced something called The Declaration of Indulgence which would have rescinded strict limitations on the role allowed to Catholics and others in political positions.  Here's what I found Douglas Wilson saying about that, which is what Pinto's film also affirms:

Why Anglicans Matter to the Rest of Us by Douglas Wilson.

In the brief and troubled reign of James II, an event took place that illustrates how connected Anglicans and non-Anglicans can sometimes be.  James the Second was a fervent supporter of the interests of Rome, and during his reign—in the memorable phrase of J.C. Ryle—“traitors were hatched in the sunshine of corruption.”

James had begun his reign by persecuting the Nonconformists—jailing the great Richard Baxter after a farce of a trial, for example, and being responsible for the death by drowning of the young Scottish martyr Margaret Wilson. Because of this kind of thing, the pitch was set for the song he intended to sing, and the Nonconformists were reinforced in their intention not even to get their Psalters out.

But in April of 1688, James issued a “Declaration of Indulgence” along with a requirement that the declaration be read in all the chapels and churches of the kingdom by their officiating ministers. Seven bishops refused to have anything to do with it, and their subsequent trial was the cause celebre that brought James down in the Glorious Revolution.

But there was a striking element in this Declaration of Indulgence. James was trying to make room for the Church of Rome, and yet the declaration allowed both Roman Catholics and Protestant Dissenters the freedom to perform worship publicly. Before the bishops had made their decision to refuse to obey the king, the Nonconformists stepped forward, in the words of Ryle, “to their eternal honour,” and offered their support to the bishops in their defiance of the king, even though it meant their continued exclusion and exile. “They refused to be bribed just as they had formally refused to be intimidated.”
 “They would have none of the Royal indulgence, if it could only be purchased at the expense of the nation’s Protestantism.  Baxter, and Bates, and Howe, and the great bulk of the London Nonconformists, entreated the clergy to stand firm, and not to yield one inch to the King.” (J.C. Ryle,
Light from Old Times (London: Thynne & Jarvis, 1924, p.438)
How NICE the idea of Religious Liberty sounds.  And haven't we all affirmed this idea with pride in our tolerant nation?  We've even thought it is in keeping with Christian principles.  How hard it is then to begin to consider that it could be a huge deception that is only turning the nation over to internal enemies.  What Muslim nation allows nonMuslims to hold office?  NO nation that has an established religion allows members of another religion that kind of power.  But America stupidly does.

James was looking for a way to give Rome a foothold in England again after they had so wisely limited her influence, and the nation wisely rejected his plot.

But guess what. What England so intelligentlhy rejected got enshrined in our American Constitution. Plots within plots that nobody ever suspected.

Things are NOT what they seem.  We Christians need to wake up and start to realize that we're threatened in ways we had no idea.  May God give us wisdom even at this late hour.

===================
* The stories of the Black Robed Regiment which were told by Pastor Dan Fisher on the radio show, are very inspiring and something we should know more about.  But I have to wonder why nothing was made of the fact that Mormon Glenn Beck has been invoking the Black Robed Regiment in a way that confuses the "Christian" basis of American history even further.  Understanding the Times is a DISCERNMENT ministry.  Let's have a little more DISCERNMENT there folks.

9 comments:

wsforten said...

I have written a book-length refutation of Mr. Pinto's film that may change your opinion of the founding fathers. I took the time to look up the original source and context of each of his quotations and discovered that his conclusions were grossly erroneous. You can read my entire book online through a series of articles at this link: http://www.increasinglearning.com/why-are-the-founding-fathers-so-important.html

I have also recently created a website cataloging quotes from the founding fathers which reveal their religious beliefs. Each quote is accompanied by a link to an original source of that quote so that it can be read in its full context. You can view this catalog at the following link: http://christian76.com/

Faith aka Connie said...

It is a lot to ask to read that much material without giving some idea of your thinking. I took a glance at your links and my impression is that you are not addressing what Chris Pinto's films address, which is specifically the beliefs of FIVE of the founders, Washinton, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin and Paine. He's well aware -- as am I as my post indicates -- that a great many of that generation WERE true Christians, so proving that doesn't argue anything against what Pinto is saying.

The quotes given in his film from the five mentioned make it unequivocally clear that they were not Christians, and since that seems to be the conclusion that Gregg Frazer in his book about the Founders also came to, I'd need a lot more reason than you give to consider any other point of view at this point.

wsforten said...

Mr. Pinto's film is a three hour production containing numerous quotes from those five founding fathers. The link that I provided was just the introduction to a series of articles in which I addressed every quote from those founders that Mr. Pinto referred to in his film. There is a list of links to each of my articles at the end of the introduction. Here is an example of the kind of statements that you would find if you were to read them:


Mr. Pinto’s critique of Thomas Paine is followed by a very enlightening quote from John Adams. Here is the quote as it appears in Mr. Pinto’s film:

"'When philosophical reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supercede it.' - John Adams, as cited in American Philosophy: an Encyclopedia"

Mr. Pinto cites his source as being a book entitled, American Philosophy: an Encyclopedia, but it is important to note that this book does not provide any reference to the original source of the quote.[1] Now, if Mr. Pinto’s goal had been to discover the truth about our founding fathers, this little fact should have set off a number of red flags in his mind. This is a very controversial quote, and it should be supported with solid, original source evidence before it is repeated.

Had Mr. Pinto invested a small amount of effort in discovering the original of this quote, he would have found that at some time in the past, this quote had been modified from its original to read as: "When [philosophical reason] is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supercede it." Notice that the phrase “philosophical reason” is in brackets. This indicates that this phrase was not in the original. Mr. Pinto’s source, however, conveniently drops the brackets, thus giving the impression that Mr. Adams actually used that phrase in his statement. The actual statement by Mr. Adams is found in a letter that he wrote to Mr. Jefferson, and which reads as, “When this Revelation is clear and certain, by Intuition or necesary Induction, no Subsequent Revelation Supported by Prophecies or Miracles can Supercede it.” It is clear from the original that Mr. Adams was comparing two types of revelation from God. This is obviously not the idea that Mr. Pinto was attempting to convey, and it is little wonder that he preferred the modified version.

Here is the full paragraph in which the quote from Mr. Adams appears…


I have not read Mr. Frazer's book, but I have listened to more than ten hours of his lectures. In those lectures, I have heard him give multiple references to this same erroneous quote.

Faith aka Connie said...

Offhand I'd say that Adams' use of "revelation" where "philosophical reason" was later bracketed did in fact MEAN "philosophical reason" which is why it was substituted, just that he put it on a par with Biblical revelation though it comes only through "intuition or necessary induction" and is not at all revelation in the Biblical sense. It should have remained in brackets, however, of course.

But I'm not a scholar of these things, I've been convinced of Chris Pinto's evidence and what you say here doesn't give me any reason to change my mind. You should bring it to his attention since he's the one doing the research. Also Gregg Frazer.

wsforten said...

I have already brought this to Mr. Pinto's attention. In fact, he devoted several of his broadcasts in an attempt to refute the first of my articles which exposed his errors in regards to the Treaty of Tripoli. I then wrote a second article defending my position followed by the full book-length, quote-by-quote refutation of his entire film. Mr. Pinto publicly assured me that he would respond to my full refutation on air, but he has not done so.

As for Mr. Frazer, I am planning to purchase his book in January and write a similar quote-by-quote analysis of his conclusions.

Faith aka Connie said...

When did those shows on the Treaty of Tripoli air? I probably heard them but I don't remember.

wsforten said...

Here is a link to the six shows on Mr. Pinto's website that I have been tagged in:

http://www.noiseofthunder.com/noise-of-thunder-radio-show-tw/tag/bill-fortenberry

Faith aka Connie said...

I can't get the right page to come up for me over there but I'll try again later. I'm sure I heard those broadcasts at the time but I don't remember the issues. Are you claiming that the five founders in question WERE Christians and that the statement in the Treaty of Tripoli that the US is not a Christian nation is misunderstood or what?

wsforten said...

Mr. Pinto made direct reference six founding fathers in his film and used a quote from a seventh without acknowledging him. He also mentioned two others in his radio responses to my articles on the Treaty of Tripoli. Of those nine men, I have documentation proving that six of them were Christians. That documentation is available on the Christian76 website.

Of the other three, one was mentioned in the last of Mr. Pinto's broadcasts, and since his Christianity has not been brought into question, I have not yet looked into it. The other two were Thomas Paine, whom the founding fathers nearly unanimously scorned and rejected, and Thomas Jefferson who was a friend to Christianity even if not a Christian himself.

As for the Treaty of Tripoli, I am not so much claiming that it is misunderstood as I am that it has been intentionally misconstrued.