Sunday, September 2, 2012

Update on my soul-searching about The Harbinger

The critics were getting to me: Perhaps, although I don't see it, I am deceived about it since they are so convinced it is a deception. The only way to find out would be to suspend my opinions and take some time off to think and pray about it.

I did that. I kept hoping for some sort of clear directive to kind of hit me from out of the blue as it were. Nothing happened. But when I went back to reading David James' book it was just as clear to me as ever that he is wrong in his criticisms. That apparently is God's answer and now I'm back to defending The Harbinger.

7 comments:

Art Telles said...

Good for you Connie...

In your Blogger profile you say that at 70 years of wisdom, you don't have a church at the moment.

Dittos.

I'm younger than you, and I also do not carry a portfolio for any denomination.

I do not defend the portfolio doctrine of

- the Roman Catholic denomination
- the Seventh-day Adventist denomination
- the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints denomination
- the Baptist denomination
- the Assembly of God denomination

and

- the whatever 'non-denomination' denomination that will arise tomorrow.

Ps.

I definitely do NOT support the Muslim 'denomination' and the effort to shariaize the entire world into one caliphate, into one umma, and the submit to Islam and convert to be a submitter, which is what Muslim means, or submit, which is what Islam means, without converting to Islam, submission, and take the humble posture of a dhimmi with head bowed as the jizya tax is demanded.

I was hesitant to respond previously about your soul searching because it didn't seem necessary to me, for you to soul search and for me to respond before you concluded, but, good for you Connie.

I like the way you write AND the fact that you write multiple paragraphs of thoughtful substance.

The criticism of The Harbinger seems to be much ado about trivia.

Yes, trivia.

So, Jonathan Cahn could have, should have, or whatever, written a different way or added more clarifying sentences to suit the critics, but the harping would simply have continued.

Before I read any criticism of The Harbinger I also notice some things that were not clear, but I did not attribute that to an effort to misrepresent the ORIGINAL intent of Isaiah 9:10.

After reading The Harbinger, and before I found your 'Faith's Corner' blog, I loaned my copy of the The Harbinger to a pastor's wife and simply said that it presents the view that history repeats itself.

For people or nations who 'covenant' with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (not the Allah of Abraham and Ishmael and Muhammad) and who do not know history, well, 'IF' the covenant is forgotten, 'WHEN' the covenant is forgotten and eventually rejected, history will DEFINITELY repeat itself.

Art

Faith aka Connie said...

Thanks, Art.

Just to be clear, I'm all in favor of having a church, I just don't happen to have one I'm attending at the moment for many reasons including physical difficulties getting there, although there is one I still consider "my" church.

But please don't call the LDS and Islam and Catholicism "Denominations." That word only applies to CHRISTIAN churches and those aren't Christian. Baptists ARE Christians and I guess I'd include Assemblies of God as well although they are sometimes over the edge. But then any Christian denomination can go over the edge these days.

Thanks again for your comment.

Art Telles said...

"... having a church"...

I'm also in favor of 'having' a church.

A 'church' is different form a 'denomination' in the same sense that a 'bible study' is different from a 'creed' that is required to be accepted and defended if one wants to be a 'member' in good standing of a 'denomination' and who wants to have a 'denomination' name.

A name is all that 'denomination' means, whether it is the name of a body of believers or the name of money, such as 1 dollar or 5 or 0 dollars. Dollars is what they are, 1 and 5 and 10 is what they are called by name.

In that dictionary sense, LDS, Islam and Catholicism (upper case 'C', lower case 'c' catholicism from the Latin simply means universal) are denominations because that is what they call themselves, their names.

My purpose here is not to debate the history of any denomination, Roman Catholic 'mass sacrifice over and over and over and over and over again' Christian, LDS 'as man is God once was, as God is, man will be' eternal progression Christian, Muslim submitter non-Chritian, but to simply state that by a name we, people and denominations, are known.

The followers of the risen One were first called Christians in Antioch, (Acts 11:26 for those of your readers who do not know, Connie, also Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16) and that still sounds good to me too.

A Christian on the narrow Way.

I don't carry the portfolio of any Christian denomination other than the portfolio of the 'mercy seat of the cross' reconciliation between Creator and created, Immanuel, God is with us in the risen One.

I am simply a Christian, which itself is the name of a denomination of believers in the risen One.

Thanks for your input and the opportunity to clarify.

Art

Abigail said...

Thank you for this blog. I read The Harbinger twice...once for myself and once aloud to my husband. Our pastor, too, has read it. Although we don't particularly care for the novel format, we agree that it most likely did contribute to a much wider audience; so who are we to argue with that?

A friend saw that I had the book and gave me a copy of The Berean Call. When we first read David James article, we (and our pastor) felt it was a hatchet job designing to cash in on the NYT bestseller. Even if I was not familiar with The Harbinger, I would have been turned off by both James and Dinsmore because of the way they write, the use of Straw Men and the fact that their history is inaccurate!

Having read The Harbinger, though, I can see we are really scratching our heads over some of the criticisms. There is so much reading into things, making of connections where there is none and simply amazing statements made that we are just floored.

I appreciate that you are giving voice here to Jonathan to respond to his critics. It is too bad the critics did not just keep it between him and them. Then again, deception falls in many ways. Perhaps, this will wake people up to not follow any "man". Just because it is written in The Berean Call (or fill in with the name of any man or ministry) does not make it so. NONE of us is above being deceived or passing deception on to others.

I have learned to be very cautious about what I say/write about others. Yes...true deception needs to be addressed, but not by more deception! It is like the pot calling the kettle black!

I do not believe Jonathan to be perfect. But the things I have heard from him and The Harbinger simply do not line up with the detractors' claims. It almost makes me wonder if they really read the book...or merely skimmed it!

Keep on keeping on, sister!

Faith aka Connie said...

Thanks, Abigail, you said it well.

I'd only disagree about their motives. I have to believe they are doing this for the best of reasons, that they really do believe they are right about the deception.

Nevertheless they are wrong and ideally someone would show them how. Not going to come from within their own camp, apparently.

Thanks again.

The Pepster said...

Without a doubt your postings are the most lucid and well written expositions of the fallacies contained in David James' arguments against the Harbinger. There are several areas where Mr. James and his colleagues digress from the Scriptural approach in conflict/doctrinal resolution among Christians, and herein is where his and their deception lies.
While they claim to possess the correct approach to Scripture interpretation, all of the arguments they make against this book are flawed and based on assumptions, couched in clever argumentations, and incorrect suppositions; all of which are by design created to mislead the unsuspecting reader into believing their premise against the Harbinger and its author Pastor Jonathan Cahn.
Because Mr. James and his colleagues hail from what appears to be mainline Christianity, their deception is even greater, because one would not expect this kind of attack to come from such places, but the times we live in are precisely that where things are not as they appear. Lawlessness and deception are rampant even among God's people, and deception is everywhere. Spiritual discernment and a proper knowledge of the Scriptures is necessary to survive the minefield that surrounds us. There are many out there, even among God's people - well meaning, but woefully misguided, compelled by zeal to do what they do which in their eyes is the right thing to do, and yet Scripturally their approach is completely wrong and unjustified. It has become quite evident, thanks to your posts and others like it, that Mr. James and his associates must be called out on this and prayed for.
Dear sister, you and your work in exposing the charlatans out there is to be commended. I thank the Lord for you. Keep the lamp lighting in the darkness and continue to expose the deception out there, because even some of the very elect are being fooled by its persuasive arguments put out by people such as James. Thank you and God bless.

Faith aka Connie said...

Thanks hugely, Pepster!