A good interview with Jonathan Cahn by Dr. Larry Spargimino on South West Ministries Radio, two days, yesterday and today:
Wednesday July 25 program
Thursday July 26 program
Seeking God again
8 years ago
Thursday, July 26, 2012
Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Joseph Farah on some of The Harbinger critics
Joseph Farah of World Net Daily has an article today taking to task some of the critics of The Harbinger, specifically Brannon Howse and Jimmy DeYoung. Glad to see it.
Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Did Jan Hus hear personally from God? Prophecy, Discernment, spiritual gifts etc.
Was recently watching Chris Pinto's film A Lamp in the Dark again, and noted that Jan Huss, one of the pre-Reformation Reformers, burned at the stake for his commitment to the Bible as the ultimate authority for a believer,* claimed to have had a private revelation from God that sounds to me like it should be called a prophecy. Wondered how that sits with all those Protestants out there who deny that such things have occurred since New Testament times. Jan Huss is one of our heroes, after all, originally a Catholic Priest, as were most of the Reformers, who saw that the Bible contradicted the teachings of Rome. He became a recognized leader in the movement that finally deposed Rome from its dominance of Europe and established the word of God as the "light unto the path" of the believer.
So here's the prophecy: In the film the narrator says:
He was prophesying of course of Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation which God would bring to Europe a hundred years after Hus's time. One might wonder if calling Luther a "swan" reflects God's sense of humor of course (or if a swan has characteristics that do fit Luther that I'm not aware of.) The Popes don't say much that I agree with but the Pope who referred to Luther as a "wild boar" got it right in my estimation. You could say that we needed a wild boar at the time of course. But anyway, as far as the Reformation goes Luther could be regarded as the beautiful swan that brought it all to fruition.
I haven't particularly thought of what I do with my blogs as a "discernment ministry" but maybe I should, as that does happen to be a big part of it. I have prayed for discernment many times, and in my experience God answers that sort of prayer -- prayers for understanding, prayers for wisdom -- much more readily than other kinds of prayers (such as for healing of my extremely painful bone-on-bone arthritis of the hips.) No, I'm certainly not claiming that my prayers guarantee I'm going to be right in my judgments, of course not, only that I have many times found myself understanding something after prayer that before had been confusing and I thank God for that. Happening to watch this film again and happening to notice that quote from Hus is very likely God's answering a prayer for understanding about the gifts for today although I don't remember a specific recent prayer about this.
I just got another comment on my "Heaven" blog, certainly a discernment issue and the one topic that really brings them in -- most to denounce me for daring to suggest that the heaven experiences are counterfeits.
They often fault me for not having read the books, but they also never succeed in showing that what I've learned from other sources about the books is false. In most cases of course a reviewer should read the book or see the movie or whatever, but there really are cases where that is not necessary, where the public knowledge of their content is sufficient to make a judgment. Remember The Last Temptation of Christ? There was no need to see the movie if your concern was Bible truth because its main story line was well known and clearly in contradiction with the Bible. Same with the DaVinci Code. On the other hand, the book The Harbinger needs to be read because there are many different ideas floating around about what it says and many misunderstandings out there to mislead people about it.
So, you could say that whether or not you always need firsthand knowledge in order to render a judgment is also a matter of discernment.
Discernment implies careful sorting of truth from lies or deception, in the light of the Holy Spirit of course. Discernment is needed first of all in reading the Bible or "rightly dividing" the Word of Truth.
If you believe that God's supernatural gifting of the Church stopped after New Testament times then you'll automatically understand all claims to supernatural experiences today to be false. No discernment is required. But if you believe otherwise then rightly judging a particular case requires you to spend time carefully comparing the Biblical standard with the claim to supernatural experience.
Does the quote from Jan Hus prove anything or not?
========================
Follow-up thought: It could be argued that cessationist doctrine itself, the doctrine that all supernatural experiences ceased after apostolic times, is a CAUSE of the discernment problems we're encountering so much today, the false signs and wonders, the New Apostolic Reformation and the like. Hidebound intellectualism interferes with true spiritual growth and experience, and interferes with the exercise of true spiritual discernment.
It also promotes a cynical mindset in those who have experienced something they can only call supernatural, leaving its understanding up to their own wildest imaginations. No wonder they fall for fleshly and demonic tricks since they know they are real at least and all the critics do is denounce what they haven't themselves experienced. No wonder if they get the source of such phenomena wrong because true supernatural spiritual discernment is not being encouraged, because it's not considered to be needed any more. In fact discerning of spirits is one of those spiritual gifts that supposedly stopped after the apostolic generation. We're supposed to rely only on intellectual understanding of the Bible, in a time when if we ever needed a God-inspired gift of discernment it's now. Proposition for a future blog topic if nothing else, the Lord willing I should live so long.
========================
*OK, specifically he was burned at the stake for denying the Roman doctrine of transubstantiation.
So here's the prophecy: In the film the narrator says:
Before he died he claimed that God had given him a promise. The name "Hus" means "goose" in the Czech language and so the Lord had told him:So, all you cessationists out there: Do you deny that this was a special revelation, even a prophecy, given to Jan Hus personally by God?They will silence the goose, but in one hundred years I will raise a swan from your ashes that no one will be able to silence. [Source: Jan Hus: The Goose of Bohemia, by William P. Farley --about 32:38 into the film]
He was prophesying of course of Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation which God would bring to Europe a hundred years after Hus's time. One might wonder if calling Luther a "swan" reflects God's sense of humor of course (or if a swan has characteristics that do fit Luther that I'm not aware of.) The Popes don't say much that I agree with but the Pope who referred to Luther as a "wild boar" got it right in my estimation. You could say that we needed a wild boar at the time of course. But anyway, as far as the Reformation goes Luther could be regarded as the beautiful swan that brought it all to fruition.
I haven't particularly thought of what I do with my blogs as a "discernment ministry" but maybe I should, as that does happen to be a big part of it. I have prayed for discernment many times, and in my experience God answers that sort of prayer -- prayers for understanding, prayers for wisdom -- much more readily than other kinds of prayers (such as for healing of my extremely painful bone-on-bone arthritis of the hips.) No, I'm certainly not claiming that my prayers guarantee I'm going to be right in my judgments, of course not, only that I have many times found myself understanding something after prayer that before had been confusing and I thank God for that. Happening to watch this film again and happening to notice that quote from Hus is very likely God's answering a prayer for understanding about the gifts for today although I don't remember a specific recent prayer about this.
I just got another comment on my "Heaven" blog, certainly a discernment issue and the one topic that really brings them in -- most to denounce me for daring to suggest that the heaven experiences are counterfeits.
They often fault me for not having read the books, but they also never succeed in showing that what I've learned from other sources about the books is false. In most cases of course a reviewer should read the book or see the movie or whatever, but there really are cases where that is not necessary, where the public knowledge of their content is sufficient to make a judgment. Remember The Last Temptation of Christ? There was no need to see the movie if your concern was Bible truth because its main story line was well known and clearly in contradiction with the Bible. Same with the DaVinci Code. On the other hand, the book The Harbinger needs to be read because there are many different ideas floating around about what it says and many misunderstandings out there to mislead people about it.
So, you could say that whether or not you always need firsthand knowledge in order to render a judgment is also a matter of discernment.
Discernment implies careful sorting of truth from lies or deception, in the light of the Holy Spirit of course. Discernment is needed first of all in reading the Bible or "rightly dividing" the Word of Truth.
If you believe that God's supernatural gifting of the Church stopped after New Testament times then you'll automatically understand all claims to supernatural experiences today to be false. No discernment is required. But if you believe otherwise then rightly judging a particular case requires you to spend time carefully comparing the Biblical standard with the claim to supernatural experience.
Does the quote from Jan Hus prove anything or not?
========================
Follow-up thought: It could be argued that cessationist doctrine itself, the doctrine that all supernatural experiences ceased after apostolic times, is a CAUSE of the discernment problems we're encountering so much today, the false signs and wonders, the New Apostolic Reformation and the like. Hidebound intellectualism interferes with true spiritual growth and experience, and interferes with the exercise of true spiritual discernment.
It also promotes a cynical mindset in those who have experienced something they can only call supernatural, leaving its understanding up to their own wildest imaginations. No wonder they fall for fleshly and demonic tricks since they know they are real at least and all the critics do is denounce what they haven't themselves experienced. No wonder if they get the source of such phenomena wrong because true supernatural spiritual discernment is not being encouraged, because it's not considered to be needed any more. In fact discerning of spirits is one of those spiritual gifts that supposedly stopped after the apostolic generation. We're supposed to rely only on intellectual understanding of the Bible, in a time when if we ever needed a God-inspired gift of discernment it's now. Proposition for a future blog topic if nothing else, the Lord willing I should live so long.
========================
*OK, specifically he was burned at the stake for denying the Roman doctrine of transubstantiation.
Monday, July 23, 2012
Advanced Hermeneutics
It was a dark and stormy night. Rain beat against the tall north windows. A flash of lightning would have shown a figure stealthily tiptoeing down the stairs if there had been anyone there to see it. A shot would have rung out if it hadn't coincided with the crack of lightning that hit close to the house. In the morning a rat was found dead at the foot of the stairs, a bullet through its brain. The cat wouldn't even touch it, just sat nearby licking its haunches. When the detective arrived he immediately suspected Replacement Theology and called for the guests to gather in the parlor.Don't ask.
[No, I was certainly not making any comparisons between The Harbinger and my goofy murder mystery. Just a moment of silly whimsy born of discouragement about the kind of thinking the Harbinger is up against.]
Sunday, July 15, 2012
The critics as usual missing the point completely. My last post on The Harbinger? I can only hope.
Well I did get to hear Brannon Howse's latest program on The Harbinger. (NOTE: It will only be available for two weeks and then you have to pay to hear it).
More of the same.
I'd like to keep it simple if possible:
They have NOTHING to say about the book itself and they still don't get what it's all about. Brannon still hasn't read it but Jimmy DeYoung says he has and yet he doesn't get it either.
ALL they have is the accusations about side issues they've been amassing for weeks now, about Jonathan Cahn's associations with NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) people (they have only ONE instance of that, by the way, and they ignore his objection that he doesn't know enough about the NAR to agree or disagree with them), his appearance on Glenn Beck and Sid Roth, the fact that he believes God may still speak to His people through dreams and prophecies and the like (in connection with the ONE fictional dream that occurs in the book, the only thing in the book that even remotely justifies any of their accusations, and their ONLY reference to the book itself).
Then they go on to Joseph Farah who made the film based on the book, The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, but do they say anything about the film? Nope, NOT A WORD, they are content to go back to a World Net Daily article in May of 2005 in which Farah endorses a book called The Mega Shift. They spend at least ten minutes on this book, which, I agree, is clearly an example of the end-time apostate doctrine of Dominionism, and does unfortunately reveal a lack of discernment on the part of Farah. But that's ALL they talk about and obviously they think they have discredited the film based on The Harbinger by talking about this OTHER book, though The Harbinger has nothing to do with Dominionism, and Farah's unfortunate lack of discernment in that case does not prove a thing about his film The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment.
Yet they claim they aren't arguing guilt by association.
ALL CIRCUMSTANTIAL POINTS, NOT ONE SINGLE POINT AGAINST THE BOOK ITSELF, because they don't have one, and they still DON'T GET IT.
And because they have a good reputation among discernment ministries others are jumping on their bandwagon also without reading the book and also not getting what it's really all about.
Again, the book is ALL ABOUT THE HARBINGERS, REAL OCCURRENCES IN THE REAL WORLD THAT UNCANNILY PRECISELY REPEAT THE EVENTS AND ATTITUDE OF ISAIAH 9:10. That's what the average reader finds so compelling about the book, that's the point of the book. Missing that is missing it completely.
It's really amazing that they address EVERYTHING BUT THE POINT OF THE BOOK.
============
Again, let me make it clear: If the book was at all based on NAR beliefs or gnosticism or mysticism, showed any compromise with false doctrine, I'd have to agree with the critics. But it isn't and it doesn't. DESPITE all these peripheral concerns, legitimate enough in their own right (though far from proven against Jonathan Cahn), the book's message remains valid, utterly untouched by any of these attempts to undermine it.
The harbingers are REAL occurrences in real reality, so far beyond coincidence or human manipulation the theology and eschatology of Jonathan Cahn is irrelevant. He's just the reporter. Maybe you don't like the sort of messenger God chose for the purpose, but God didn't ask you. The critics have remained blind to this one central fact.
*****PROVE SOME OTHER SOURCE FOR THE HARBINGERS THAN GOD HIMSELF AND YOU'D HAVE A POINT.*****
AS IT IS YOU ARE JUST BLOWING HOT AIR. Destructive hot air, smearing innocent people, but still just hot air.
The harbingers are portents of God's judgment on the nation because they literally repeat the same situation in America that occurred in Israel as described in Isaiah 9:10 -- fallen bricks, sycamore tree, the determination to rebuild and replant with stronger materials -- the exact same materials Israel intended to use, same kind of stone, same kind of tree. The verse describes God's judgment in the form of an attack by Assyria and Israel's defiant attitude toward it instead of repentance, which is going to bring further judgment as subsequent verses make clear. The repetition of the same literal events in America, the fallen buildings to be replaced by a better building with a quarried cornerstone, and a single symbolic sycamore tree that was replaced by a pine type tree, and the attitude of defiance saying we'll build and plant bigger and better -- even spoken unwittingly by some of America's leaders -- is something that could only come from God Himself. This is no simple call to repentance that anyone could have given who is tuned into the sins of America, this is a declaration of God's judgment apparently given to us by God Himself.
The critics don't get it and they don't seem to care. They are content to tar Cahn with insinuations and innuendoes and leave it at that.
What else is there to say really? Time to commit this to God, pray and trust in Him, there's really nothing more to say.
More of the same.
I'd like to keep it simple if possible:
They have NOTHING to say about the book itself and they still don't get what it's all about. Brannon still hasn't read it but Jimmy DeYoung says he has and yet he doesn't get it either.
ALL they have is the accusations about side issues they've been amassing for weeks now, about Jonathan Cahn's associations with NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) people (they have only ONE instance of that, by the way, and they ignore his objection that he doesn't know enough about the NAR to agree or disagree with them), his appearance on Glenn Beck and Sid Roth, the fact that he believes God may still speak to His people through dreams and prophecies and the like (in connection with the ONE fictional dream that occurs in the book, the only thing in the book that even remotely justifies any of their accusations, and their ONLY reference to the book itself).
Then they go on to Joseph Farah who made the film based on the book, The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, but do they say anything about the film? Nope, NOT A WORD, they are content to go back to a World Net Daily article in May of 2005 in which Farah endorses a book called The Mega Shift. They spend at least ten minutes on this book, which, I agree, is clearly an example of the end-time apostate doctrine of Dominionism, and does unfortunately reveal a lack of discernment on the part of Farah. But that's ALL they talk about and obviously they think they have discredited the film based on The Harbinger by talking about this OTHER book, though The Harbinger has nothing to do with Dominionism, and Farah's unfortunate lack of discernment in that case does not prove a thing about his film The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment.
Yet they claim they aren't arguing guilt by association.
ALL CIRCUMSTANTIAL POINTS, NOT ONE SINGLE POINT AGAINST THE BOOK ITSELF, because they don't have one, and they still DON'T GET IT.
And because they have a good reputation among discernment ministries others are jumping on their bandwagon also without reading the book and also not getting what it's really all about.
Again, the book is ALL ABOUT THE HARBINGERS, REAL OCCURRENCES IN THE REAL WORLD THAT UNCANNILY PRECISELY REPEAT THE EVENTS AND ATTITUDE OF ISAIAH 9:10. That's what the average reader finds so compelling about the book, that's the point of the book. Missing that is missing it completely.
It's really amazing that they address EVERYTHING BUT THE POINT OF THE BOOK.
============
Again, let me make it clear: If the book was at all based on NAR beliefs or gnosticism or mysticism, showed any compromise with false doctrine, I'd have to agree with the critics. But it isn't and it doesn't. DESPITE all these peripheral concerns, legitimate enough in their own right (though far from proven against Jonathan Cahn), the book's message remains valid, utterly untouched by any of these attempts to undermine it.
The harbingers are REAL occurrences in real reality, so far beyond coincidence or human manipulation the theology and eschatology of Jonathan Cahn is irrelevant. He's just the reporter. Maybe you don't like the sort of messenger God chose for the purpose, but God didn't ask you. The critics have remained blind to this one central fact.
*****PROVE SOME OTHER SOURCE FOR THE HARBINGERS THAN GOD HIMSELF AND YOU'D HAVE A POINT.*****
AS IT IS YOU ARE JUST BLOWING HOT AIR. Destructive hot air, smearing innocent people, but still just hot air.
The harbingers are portents of God's judgment on the nation because they literally repeat the same situation in America that occurred in Israel as described in Isaiah 9:10 -- fallen bricks, sycamore tree, the determination to rebuild and replant with stronger materials -- the exact same materials Israel intended to use, same kind of stone, same kind of tree. The verse describes God's judgment in the form of an attack by Assyria and Israel's defiant attitude toward it instead of repentance, which is going to bring further judgment as subsequent verses make clear. The repetition of the same literal events in America, the fallen buildings to be replaced by a better building with a quarried cornerstone, and a single symbolic sycamore tree that was replaced by a pine type tree, and the attitude of defiance saying we'll build and plant bigger and better -- even spoken unwittingly by some of America's leaders -- is something that could only come from God Himself. This is no simple call to repentance that anyone could have given who is tuned into the sins of America, this is a declaration of God's judgment apparently given to us by God Himself.
The critics don't get it and they don't seem to care. They are content to tar Cahn with insinuations and innuendoes and leave it at that.
What else is there to say really? Time to commit this to God, pray and trust in Him, there's really nothing more to say.
Saturday, July 14, 2012
More of same: Harbinger
For some reason I'm not able to access Brannon Howse's Friday programs until the following Monday, so I won't be able to hear yesterday's either until Monday.
I've been hearing rumors, however, that he's continuing his sadly misguided attacks on the Harbinger and on those who defend the Harbinger.
This really IS sad. Obviously he's got himself convinced that he's on the righteous side of this, which gives him license to trash others in the name of "discernment." I would hope that such a misdirected sense of certainty could yet be challenged by the truth he's so far failed to recognize and his eyes be opened to the errors he's been making. I feel the same way about T A McMahon whose Berean Call I used to appreciate a great deal.
It's still a puzzle how these reputable ministries have put themselves in this position, with such a wrong sense of rightness. So odd:
Oh well. There's no such thing as a move of God without opposition. Too bad, it does take a toll, and it's sad to see otherwise reputable Christian leaders on the wrong side of this.
Wish I could access Howse's broadcast, but at least I'll get to hear it on Monday and can add to this then.
I'll finish with my usual refrain: What the critics have to address is the harbingers themselves, those amazingly uncanny occurrences IN REALITY, that are completely independent of all theologies, eschatologies and opinions. They are REAL.
I've been hearing rumors, however, that he's continuing his sadly misguided attacks on the Harbinger and on those who defend the Harbinger.
This really IS sad. Obviously he's got himself convinced that he's on the righteous side of this, which gives him license to trash others in the name of "discernment." I would hope that such a misdirected sense of certainty could yet be challenged by the truth he's so far failed to recognize and his eyes be opened to the errors he's been making. I feel the same way about T A McMahon whose Berean Call I used to appreciate a great deal.
It's still a puzzle how these reputable ministries have put themselves in this position, with such a wrong sense of rightness. So odd:
- If they tend to focus a lot on the NAR then they accuse The Harbinger of promoting false prophecy. Nothing anyone says to show how wrong they are budges them off their self-conceived position.
- Same with those who are acutely alert to anything that seems like replacement theology -- they hallucinate replacement theology in The Harbinger.
- Some have this bee in their bonnet about false hermeneutics -- really weird when we're talking about one single OT verse that is VERY easy to understand -- except for those who misread it of course, making it out to be a message of reassurance of rebuilding rather than a statement of defiance of God -- THAT's the bad hermeneutic, the one preached by Daschle and Edwards.
- Then there are some who came out of a gnostic background -- they read gnosticism into The Harbinger. Kabbalah, Zohar.
Oh well. There's no such thing as a move of God without opposition. Too bad, it does take a toll, and it's sad to see otherwise reputable Christian leaders on the wrong side of this.
Wish I could access Howse's broadcast, but at least I'll get to hear it on Monday and can add to this then.
I'll finish with my usual refrain: What the critics have to address is the harbingers themselves, those amazingly uncanny occurrences IN REALITY, that are completely independent of all theologies, eschatologies and opinions. They are REAL.
Friday, July 13, 2012
Christians are called to stand up against the sin of homosexuality and expect to be persecuted for doing so
On a recent radio show, Chris Pinto mentioned a video by a Pastor Scott Lively about the sin of homosexuality that was pulled from You Tube as "hate speech" so I went and found it. I don't belong to Facebook so I can't embed it here, but here's the whole page. Well worth listening to.
Nothing "hateful" about it, just a calm rational straightforward description of the situation. Whole history of the movement, and how Christians have been abdicating our calling to confront it.
Christians are being cowed by the aggressive tactics of "gay rights" and backing off when what is needed is standing firm against them.
Always always always it COSTS to defend God's truth. This includes even defending The Harbinger against some WITHIN the church who have failed to see what it's really all about and are as good as persecuting its defenders. We should rejoice when we are persecuted, scripture tells us, hard to do of course, but that's our calling, and it's only going to get worse as the end times progress and evil grows apace that we must stand up against. The cost of failing to stand will be the loss of spiritual power and spiritual discernment.
I feel I've been remiss on the topic of homosexuality, letting it slide instead of bringing God's word to bear on it as we are called to do.
Yes, prepare for persecution because the truth is now called "hate speech" and when that is fully in force we'll no longer have freedom of speech or religion. As Pastor Lively points out in his sermon, when some gay activists try to disrupt him, suppressing the speech of someone who disagrees with you is fascism. Blogger belongs to Google too, just as You Tube does, so just posting this puts me in line for persecution.
Nothing "hateful" about it, just a calm rational straightforward description of the situation. Whole history of the movement, and how Christians have been abdicating our calling to confront it.
Christians are being cowed by the aggressive tactics of "gay rights" and backing off when what is needed is standing firm against them.
Always always always it COSTS to defend God's truth. This includes even defending The Harbinger against some WITHIN the church who have failed to see what it's really all about and are as good as persecuting its defenders. We should rejoice when we are persecuted, scripture tells us, hard to do of course, but that's our calling, and it's only going to get worse as the end times progress and evil grows apace that we must stand up against. The cost of failing to stand will be the loss of spiritual power and spiritual discernment.
I feel I've been remiss on the topic of homosexuality, letting it slide instead of bringing God's word to bear on it as we are called to do.
Yes, prepare for persecution because the truth is now called "hate speech" and when that is fully in force we'll no longer have freedom of speech or religion. As Pastor Lively points out in his sermon, when some gay activists try to disrupt him, suppressing the speech of someone who disagrees with you is fascism. Blogger belongs to Google too, just as You Tube does, so just posting this puts me in line for persecution.
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